Variance in player skill is hurting FFXIV's itemization design.

[Zojha]

So, I don't know why you would say things like EX-trials and Weeping City have no longevity.

Because if I were to include them, I'd encounter an issue: Why exactly are hunts, dungeons and the diadem not included? Those, too, can be done with friends, two of them even with a larger group. Sure, they are easy enough to be pug'd, but so are EX trials/24 man/normal raids. And as we all know from Ozma wipes and whines, many people do in fact consider this difficulty rather stressful already.

And if you consider those to be a good break for Savage, wouldn't conversely dungeons be a good break from EX trials or normal raids for a less skilled person in the exact same manner? Perhaps the hunt zerg even be a good break from dungeons for even less skilled people? Would not all group content ultimately have the same effect to varying degrees?

[Brian_]

And if you consider those to be a good break for Savage, wouldn't conversely dungeons be a good break from EX trials or normal raids for a less skilled person in the exact same manner? Perhaps the hunt zerg even be a good break from dungeons for even less skilled people? Would not all group content ultimately have the same effect to varying degrees?

It's about variety and flexibility in content. Raid content can easily scale from entry-level raiding to hard-core raiding. As such, it has a much wider coverage and that's why I disagree with the notion it is niche and why I originally said it has the widest appeal. And, more importantly, it can build a bridge of progression that helps convert a casual into a core player. That doesn't exist with hunts. That doesn't exist in Diadem. It doesn't exist in dungeons because SE has said that with dungeons, their hands are tied in terms of design and difficulty.

Someone can get their feet wet in an EX-trial or Mhach and develop an appetite for more. I don't think hunts or Diadem lead anywhere progressive. Again, this goes back to my point about content breeding longevity. When the content I listed hits their mark, it hooks people.

Also, while we've seen SE have their moments with dungeon narratives, I think their dungeon narratives pale in comparison to their raid efforts. Coil, Crystal Tower, the Mhach series so far, and even Alexander all tell better stories and have larger experiences than just a dungeon. You just can't achieve the same scope with dungeon content -- even if it is sequential like the NM/HM dungeons.

[Granyala]

Also, while we've seen SE have their moments with dungeon narratives, I think their dungeon narratives pale in comparison to their raid efforts. Coil, Crystal Tower, the Mhach series so far, and even Alexander all tell better stories and have larger experiences than just a dungeon. You just can't achieve the same scope with dungeon content -- even if it is sequential like the NM/HM dungeons.

Of course you could.

After all the storytelling is 99% cutscene and 1% what happens during the raid encounter
Seriously, I found the trash bosses in Coil rather anticlimactic. "Here ya go raider, fight a random plant that is attacking you... because it can. DEFEND YOURSELF! /Klingon"

SE simply doesn't choose to do so. Why is anyone's guess, though I do think they wan to reserve the "epicness of story moments" for raids.

Look at relic, it's grindy and is nothing special. FFXI relic was grindy too but had some special effect to it. At least make relic unqiue and not some grind that barely gives any purpose.

I thought the purpose of the relic is a unique weapon model (some stages with nice particleFX) and stats being able to be chosen at your leisure.

[Seraphix2407]

I thought the purpose of the relic is a unique weapon model (some stages with nice particleFX) and stats being able to be chosen at your leisure.

Doing 800 alex runs or have some luck on maps (which many couldnt afford to spend on alot) or grind law and eso for that minimal upgrade. Yes you can change the stats in the current relic quest, however, all that for minimal upgrade. Relic is supose to be powerful, unique (yes it can be unique looking some of them are copy paste from other weapons) but powerful? Not really. They need to make gear more appealing, like making raid gear with stat bonuses (like grand company gear) could be a starter. If you don't raid well, fair enough. I think raid gear should be best. I think more ways to obtain gear and with different setups would be good too. Right now FF14 feels more like a dress up simulator, even tho I don't spend hours on glamour,I pick something I like and that's it.

[Granyala]

I think raid gear should be best.

Last time I checked, it is. Item level is king because secondary stats are pathetically weak in FF.

Now, if you want to argue that "equip higher item level and be done with gearing" is boring, we could have a discussion, because I would agree on that premise. Stat wise, the gear in this game is extremely boring. Stats beyond item level might as well not exist, because secondaries are too weak to have an impact (even if I meld only SS I don't feel any difference in casting speed) and with only 2 sets we don't have much choice in terms of "stacking fav stat" anyway.

If you only QQ because you want raiding gear to have an even bigger gap so you can feel better about yourself, compared to the non raiding peasants -> WoW is that way.

[Seraphix2407]

Now, if you want to argue that "equip higher item level and be done with gearing" is boring, we could have a discussion, because I would agree on that premise. Stat wise, the gear in this game is extremely boring. Stats beyond item level might as well not exist, because secondaries are too weak to have an impact (even if I meld only SS I don't feel any difference in casting speed) and with only 2 sets we don't have much choice in terms of "stacking fav stat" anyway..

You pretty much summed up how I feel, so no worries! The gap doesn't really need to be much higher than tomestone gear, what I mean is add something cool to the raid gear atleast.
Oh yeah tomestone capping do suck as well. If they gonna do that for the next expension, you and I know very well people gonna be tired of the same shit. Same thing different wrapping yeah?

This is why I made my initial post, to be honest. I'm just trying to puzzle out what people want - cooler gear with a variety of situational use, or a way for raiders to set themselves apart from everyone else in a manner that casuals cannot touch? To me, this game's selling point is that I don't have to spend boatloads of time grinding to stay relevant. If they suddenly changed that, I'd just go back to playing Blade and Soul, which operates under a similar philosophy but at least has characters with actual butts in it.

I get your point, raid alone is fun but the reward is not that great. It really isn't. So if raid gear does get better (not only ilvl up) but also form for bonus stats would be cool to have. So if you don't raid or can't raid you will get that gear eventually (if it appeals to you as glamour for alts), they always have nerf patches of that content. However by then the gear is kinda shit because of new ilvl again. Give raiders some cool stuff, because last time I checked, the forum was hoarding and going crazy about how chinese/japanese/korean people have exlusive items. It's not like it's a game breaker for casuals either no? Why would you need great gear for only doing dungeons?

[Venur]

I get your point, raid alone is fun but the reward is not that great. It really isn't. So if raid gear does get better (not only ilvl up) but also form for bonus stats would be cool to have. It's not like it's a game breaker for casuals either no? Why would you need great gear for only doing dungeons?

Why raider would need to have funier items then none raider ? Dungeon ilvl is lower because you don't need bether stats gear if your not raiding.

But it doesn't make sense to claim that raider need cooler stuff because they raid. They just need bether stats to achieve a harder goal.