Possible level/story jumps....really?

[bass9020]

When they mention fans, I feel it's the fans of FFXIV in general. Without us, the people playing this game and recommending it to friends (or players curious about it), FFXIV wouldn't be.
They also put "Fun Comes First: If it's not fun, you're doing it wrong." Some/most classes are just not fun at low levels and a lot of the quests in the 2.0 storyline are filler (just there for exp, rather than the plot).

Not saying they shouldn't be fun from the start but the whole point is to build up to the final "form". Its part of the experience to start from nothing and gain achievements through levels.

[Istaru]

When they mention fans, I feel it's the fans of FFXIV in general. Without us, the people playing this game and recommending it to friends (or players curious about it), FFXIV wouldn't be.
They also put "Fun Comes First: If it's not fun, you're doing it wrong." Some/most classes are just not fun at low levels and a lot of the quests in the 2.0 storyline are filler (just there for exp, rather than the plot).

I do not disagree about many of the 2.x quests are simply fluff and filler and not terribly fun. I don't think that it would be detrimental to anyone if people could skip over them. The potion would allow them to skip those quests and still end with the amount of xp they would have other wise.

[Teryaani]

I do not disagree about many of the 2.x quests are simply fluff and filler and not terribly fun. I don't think that it would be detrimental to anyone if people could skip over them. The potion would allow them to skip those quests and still end with the amount of xp they would have other wise.

Given that they're already making some of those quests as side quests and not required for the MSQ, it seems like they have a mechanism to deal with it outside of the potion route. Where the level/quest jump may make some sense is a few patches down the road. The road to 60, even in the game's current state, just isn't that long.

[LineageRazor]

The linear storyline is, unfortunately, not a great model for a MMO.

Think of it like a TV series - let's go with Game of Thrones. You've started to hear about this show. Your friends are into it. You'd like to start watching with them. Problem is, the show's in its sixth season. That's a lot to get caught up on! Given your busy schedule, you'll be lucky if you get current before the series ends in a couple years. So, instead, you read a few summaries, get caught up on the plot, and you're good to go. Maybe not the optimal Game of Thrones experience, but you're satisfied.

FFXIV doesn't offer that luxury. If you want to play with your friends, you've gotta watch every episode. I can certainly understand why that would be frustrating for a lot of people - and why it would turn a lot of people off of the game entirely.

It is better for a MMO to have independent storylines introduced with each expansion, rather than have each expansion continue a single, central storyline. Players should be free to pick and choose what order to complete these storylines in, and even the freedom to ignore some of the storylines entirely if they're simply not interested.

And if the decision is made to have a single storyline that continues from expansion to expansion... then yes, I'm sorry, but SOME method is going to need to be introduced to allow new players to just get a summary of what has come before. It's a bitter pill to swallow, and I don't like it myself, but an MMO NEEDS the lifeblood that new players provide. It's a pretty niche portion of new players that will be willing to tolerate six expansions worth of Main Scenario quests just to start participating in the latest content. If too many potential new players are turned off by the sheer amount of story they need to get through, it's going to drive the game into an early grave.

None of what I've said has anything to do with level boosting potions, however. That, I think, is totally unnecessary, and possibly even harmful. The time it takes to level a job is ridiculously short, and it's better for players to learn their abilities a few at a time, rather than have them all dumped into their laps at once.

[Kosmos992k]

The linear storyline is, unfortunately, not a great model for a MMO.

No, that's not true at all. The point of an MMO is for people to play together. The point of a story is to experience it individually. MMOS contain content for solo play as well as multi-player. Having the majority of the story as solo content and having specific events in the story as multi-player is a perfectly viable way to add a linear story to an MMORPG. It sounds to me like you may favor a more open world sand box style of game which is, IMHO, essentially incompatible with telling a decent story because the player 'makes' their own...::rolls eyes::

Unfortunately, this is why (I think) they're wanting to implement this potion thing: a lot of potential subscribers will avoid the game due to how boring and long the story is (for them: I know some people like it) and simply quit the game and go play something else. The same happened with my sister who, as soon as I heard about this, I went to tell her the news and she literally said the "eff word" to the game and didn't even bother to play again. And she actually followed it, but just found it overly boring.

And? Seriously, if they are not interested in the story, then why play this game instead of some other MMORPG that caters to people who don't care about story. FF games are always story driven, to expect otherwise is to expect FF to be something it's not.

But yes a lot of people, as soon as I tell them about how the expansion is locked, they simply laugh and say "forget it", but let's face it: FFXIV needs subscribers, needs more players and being niche doesn't give you enough (one of the reasons why Wildstar failed and why the 1.0 archaic system was botched), and this is why there's a lot of controversy right now: fans want the story to be kept, while non-fans simply want it to be optional so that them and their friends can play together without being bothered.

Implementing story skipping and level boosting potions is pay to win, in a story driven RPG, which this is. Implementing such things cheapens the existing content and those who played and enjoyed it, it also creates a divide in the player population between those playing the game and enjoying the world and those treating it as a glorified multiplayer arcade fighter. It's a terrible idea, and will hurt the game. Long term subscribers who enjoy the story and lore will be gradually driven out by the lazy player crowd who don't give a shit about story.

But what's worse is, considering they're planning this potion already, I have a feeling that this means that subs are either not growing, or going down...but I'm only speculating so don't take me seriously.

That's a lot of unsubstantiated speculation. Regardless of the growth or otherwise of player numbers, a more interesting statistic might be the length of subscription vs intent to stay subscribed. Implementing a big fat lazy button that eviscerates the content of the game will hurt that number, and those long term subs are the bread and butter of this game since they are the ones who stay subbed between patches.

[LineageRazor]

No, that's not true at all. The point of an MMO is for people to play together. The point of a story is to experience it individually. MMOS contain content for solo play as well as multi-player. Having the majority of the story as solo content and having specific events in the story as multi-player is a perfectly viable way to add a linear story to an MMORPG. It sounds to me like you may favor a more open world sand box style of game which is, IMHO, essentially incompatible with telling a decent story because the player 'makes' their own...::rolls eyes::

Eh, do you even realize what you just said? I agree completely - the point of an MMO is for people to play together. The linear storyline is PREVENTING people from playing together. They WANT to play where the other people are playing - but they can't, because they have weeks' worth of storyline to get through just to get where the people are.

With multiple storylines, players have the option of choosing a shorter path to get where the people are. They can start right off with the latest expansion's story, and once they've gotten into the thick of endgame they can choose to explore the other storylines at their leisure.

[Voltyblast]

And? Seriously, if they are not interested in the story, then why play this game instead of some other MMORPG that caters to people who don't care about story. FF games are always story driven, to expect otherwise is to expect FF to be something it's not.

Final fantasy games are story driven, yes, but this is an MMORPG: it's not the same thing. MMORPGs are based around gameplay (or else 1.0 wouldn't be shut down to begin with), however not only this game forces you to follow a story that you may or may not like it, but also needlessly locks content for the sake of the "lore". The bible this is not: they can change whatever they want, if they wanted, to make it flexible for everyone. "This is a Final Fantasy" game is a bad excuse nowadays: I've played RPGs where story and gameplay were perfectly balanced. And again, this is an MMORPG: gameplay is above everything else. Yes, even story, and I'm pretty sure this is why 2.0 was a success. It wasn't broken at least...

Implementing story skipping and level boosting potions is pay to win, in a story driven RPG, which this is. Implementing such things cheapens the existing content and those who played and enjoyed it, it also creates a divide in the player population between those playing the game and enjoying the world and those treating it as a glorified multiplayer arcade fighter. It's a terrible idea, and will hurt the game. Long term subscribers who enjoy the story and lore will be gradually driven out by the lazy player crowd who don't give a shit about story.

I agree that the potion is bad but, excuse me for my ignorance, why would "skipping the story" hurt the game? They'd still play for the gameplay. Infact there are people who only play for the gameplay and probably never cared for the story whatsoever (hello!). Maybe you mean it would hurt the game's STORY...ehm how? If by chance they made story optional, you'd still be able to follow it like you do now, but those who don't follow the story now won't follow the story anyway: the situation won't change really much. Infact making optional would actually allow players to follow the story by their own means and pace. I can only see win-win here honestly: people who want story get their story, people who want gameplay get their gameplay, and it's not even that hard: just don't make the story lock content and you're done, allow everything to be unlocked with a simple quest or level.
Although I have a feeling that the reason why it might hurt, it's because the actual people who follow the story would be much less than you think....I'm only speculating here though.

That's a lot of unsubstantiated speculation. Regardless of the growth or otherwise of player numbers, a more interesting statistic might be the length of subscription vs intent to stay subscribed. Implementing a big fat lazy button that eviscerates the content of the game will hurt that number, and those long term subs are the bread and butter of this game since they are the ones who stay subbed between patches..

Uh oh, someone missed a very important statement of that: that's is entirely speculation from me. You know, I might be totally, utterly, incredibly and undeniably wrong, but it IS a concern however because, while in WoW the "lazy button" makes somewhat sense - that game has 6 expansions - this game has just 1 expansion. Unless they're so greedy that they want dem money, this is really a bad idea and it seems we agree on that (hey it's something!). But the thing is, "Why such an idea so soon?" hence I gave my ideas: either the game's story locks people to the point of unsubscribing, or maybe the numbers aren't growing enough and so they want to be more open. I dunno, as I said I'm speculating, it's almost like I said an undeniable truth and...oh right, this is the internet: MY BAD!

[Kosmos992k]

"This is a Final Fantasy" game is a bad excuse nowadays: I've played RPGs where story and gameplay were perfectly balanced. And again, this is an MMORPG: gameplay is above everything else. Yes, even story, and I'm pretty sure this is why 2.0 was a success. It wasn't broken at least...

No, I disagree completely. Gameplay is not above all else. and yes this is a final Fantasy game, and it's a perfectly valid reason to object to eviscerating the story in the game to satisfy lazy gamers with the attention span of a Goldfish.

I agree that the potion is bad but, excuse me for my ignorance, why would "skipping the story" hurt the game?

Because it would create a cadre of people among the playerbase who don't understand the world, nor the situation they are in. This is a virtual world we play in, not just an assembly of boss battles one after another.

They'd still play for the gameplay. Infact there are people who only play for the gameplay and probably never cared for the story whatsoever (hello!). Maybe you mean it would hurt the game's STORY...ehm how?

I doubt very much that any significant proportion of the players are playing because they like the gameplay, but don't care at all about the story, world, etc. I didn't mean that it would hurt the story, however it would in fact hurt the story too.

If by chance they made story optional, you'd still be able to follow it like you do now, but those who don't follow the story now won't follow the story anyway: the situation won't change really much. Infact making optional would actually allow players to follow the story by their own means and pace.

No, it allows players who don't care to cheat their way through the game skipping story and levelling. While players who follow the story fall behind immediately. It's paid cheating sanctioned by the game maker, pure and simple.

I can only see win-win here honestly: people who want story get their story, people who want gameplay get their gameplay, and it's not even that hard: just don't make the story lock content and you're done, allow everything to be unlocked with a simple quest or level.

It's not a win/win is a lose/lose. You can't throw out the story in a story based game without hurting the game. You hurt the story as well because developers spend a lot of time trying to figure out how many of their Dev $$ on given content. If fewer players follow the story, that content get's fewer $$, which directly hurts the story, and game.

Although I have a feeling that the reason why it might hurt, it's because the actual people who follow the story would be much less than you think....I'm only speculating here though.

Speculate away, all you're doing is confirming in my eyes that you don't don't care about story.

Your position is essentially to say, that because you don't think story matters, it's ok to make it optional, regardless of the consequences to the game, or players. FFXIV is a story driven game, making that story optional, or skippable devalues the very thing that is core to the game. Changing the game that fundamentally will hurt players, the game and the story all so that a bunch of people who might play if only that pesky story wasn't there, can sub, and then unsub a couple of months later when something else new and shiny comes along.

This idea that you can make the story and leveling skippable attacks the game and devalues it in ways that ultimately hurt the player base, and honestly, will drive long standing players from the game if it happens. In my opinion, I'd rather lose a bunch of short term players who'll move on soon anyway than lose a bunch of players who have built roots in Eorzea and shown through their loyalty that they are hee for the long haul.

Eh, do you even realize what you just said? I agree completely - the point of an MMO is for people to play together. The linear storyline is PREVENTING people from playing together. They WANT to play where the other people are playing - but they can't, because they have weeks' worth of storyline to get through just to get where the people are.

With multiple storylines, players have the option of choosing a shorter path to get where the people are. They can start right off with the latest expansion's story, and once they've gotten into the thick of endgame they can choose to explore the other storylines at their leisure.

Way to go with selective quoting and comprehension.

I said that an MMORPG has to balance solo elements and multi-player elements. So that the story is largely a solo experience except for the points at which players are brought together for larger events that take more than a single player, such as dungeons and trials. I realize completely what I said.

As for your implication that there are weeks of story that has to be completed without the presence of friends, you must have some not so great friends if they won't take time to help you out in progressing the MSQ multi-player events.

Multiple story lines and free form story elements create a disjointed story experience for players. With a linear story - and let's just face it story telling is fundamentally linear, even if you play with flashbacks and stories told through multiple flashbacks and time sequences the story itself is always a linear progression from one event to another - with a linear story, you have commone experience and events to talk about, it creates common ground among players.

Honestly, the worst thing about this game IMHO is the end-game. Fortunately, it's eminently skippable.

[bass9020]

Agree 100%

Kosmos I feel like its a lost battle with most of the people in favor of these horrible game features but I totally agree with you and can only hope that the devs and Yoshi really think long and hard about this decision that will impact our game heavily.

[Voltyblast]

Speculate away, all you're doing is confirming in my eyes that you don't don't care about story.

I personally don't care about the story, no, however I know people care about it and this is why I'm giving my opinions on how it could improved. I could've said "just remove it entirely" but I would be lying if I said that.
However, despite my carelessness for the story I even gave my take on how to make it more relevant because by making them optional the developers can have more freedom, as the game isn't bound to the story.

However, I don't agree with what you said because you're putting the story above everything, even gameplay. While I - according to you that is - devalue the story for gameplay, you are devalueing gameplay for story and guess which one is worse?
Let me just say, that 1.0 didn't exactly shine in gameplay and it was one of the major reason for its shutdown. Even its story couldn't save it (although I heard only later the story became "decent")

And once again, people who don't care about the story WILL NOT CARE in the future, but those who CARE ABOUT THE GAME will keep playing the game in the future. I'm not saying that there is just one kind of people: there are those who want a story and those who don't, which is TOTALLY FINE. It's however useless to say "oh but they won't care about the lore and the story if they can skip it": people already don't care, and they won't bother with the lore to begin with. Not all of course but still a good bunch of players will skip it and never bother. You won't change them. You won't change me. Ever.

And this is why I said that players who follow won't see the difference, because you can still follow the story at your own way. What would stop you to follow if it was optional? It's not being put aside: the story and gameplay can go together, but you don't require both to play it fully. It doesn't necessarily have to be bound to lore to make it sense and again, the bible this is not: they can modify things, remove things, make up reasons, anything.
Or perhaps people will lose the reason to follow it because now it's not mandatory anymore? I'm not saying that's the reason but, the way I spoke with people in the past, they made the MSQ look like busy work. Nobody likes busy work in videogames...

On top of that, with normal RPGs, I can play any chapter of the saga in any order I want: I can play Shadow Hearts 2 before 1, or Ar tonelico 3 before 1, or Atelier Iris 3 before 2, or Digital devil saga 2 before 1, or Drakenkard 2 before 1, Legaia 2 before 1 and etc. It's my loss? Yeah, but guess what: I can play the previous game and learn the story, at my own pace. I usually don't but it's my choice, not the game's. And yes I know they're offline rpgs so they technically don't count, but I'm sure you see my point.

But if you don't agree then...."shrugs" just pray this potion won't come out from the sketches. But I doubt it.