Seperate the Grind from Item creation

[darkstarpoet1]

The current crafting system features a white-knuckle battle between durability and progress/quality. Except that you can get away with standarding away on auto-pilot. I suggest improving the current system by making exp gain from a synth depend MUCH more heavily on quality. Furthermore, allow for exp chains as long as you gain 100+ quality on a synth your level or higher. Or alternatively, a chain bonus for making multiple HQ in a row, but probably a bigger bonus since it would be more random.

Current System

exp_gain = (250 + 50 * level_difference) * (1.0 + 0.001 * quality_gain)

Crafting EXP formula link.

Proposed Change

* Cut the base exp of 250, maybe down to 100 or so.
* Increase the quality factor by a factor of as high as 10.
* Allow exp chains for consecutive high quality synths.

These changes would make players at least play the mini-game we have to get best exp while synthing.

Crafting Guild Leves

Guild leves would be more interesting if there were some in-game reinforcement for the efforts. Something like increased NPC effectiveness in hamlet defense battles as a direct result of the armor and weapons crafted for them through leves. Or some kind of crafting reputation and reward for aiding the Ala Mhigoan refuges. As it is, Blackbrush may need an endless supply of boots and food, but there is no in-game reflection of that supply being met or not.

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addition 1.

this i like. there was also an idea that the starting quality of the synth should not change due to hq materials being used. here's a basic example.

now:
hq materials used = @160 durability and 300quality.

changed:
hq materials used = @200 durbaility and 0 quality.

these would require you to actually play the game and use the abilities to get an item as a higher tier item. in other words, no more standard to completion then massive amounts of touch ups. they seem set on using a hq system that has a 100% hq rate so why not let the hq rate be entirely dependent on the quality of the synth.

now:
get 50 quality and touch up touch up and get a +2, but get 300 and after touch ups get nq.

after:
get less than 100 quality and get nq with a small chance at a +1, get to 100 quality and get a sure +1 with a shot at a +2, get to 150 and get a +2 with a shot at a +3, and get over 200 and get +3 gear.

this would actually require someone to make the gear using their abilities for a chance at the higher tier of hq items. this would work well in my eyes with the additional ideas you had for crafting chains and basing the sp off synths off the final quality. these should be level based, of course, and not a r49 weaver mass producing r1 yarn for 300 sp. they would have to be like battle as in within 10 ranks or the sp gained is 0.

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addition 2.

add a spot in the crafting guilds in which people that are looking for a certain item and cannot be found in the wards order it from the npc there. the crafters could come in and pick up orders placed by other players through the guild and create the item for the price the npc sells the item for. they could get guild marks, exp, and gil from supplying those requested items. it would be a nice way for crafters and other players to relay what is needed in the wards as well and keep the other classes from waiting weeks looking for that one piece of gear.

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addition 3.

make materia come in only base stats. there is no reason to have 20 different pieces of Strength IV with different stats that make up their own unique stack. have all materia come with only base stats for each tier of materia. the attaching process would be turned into a synth and not the rehash of the original repair system we have now. the quality would be based exactly like the hq process is, but instead of +1 +2 it would be the different stats they have as a higher level hq. this would allow materia to be stacked and save a tremendous amount of space.

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addition 4.

change the process to dye gear. the way to dye clothes should have been put in place of the way materia is attached.
first, select the piece of gear you want.
second, the color you want to dye the item to.
third add whatever water or whatever they want to add to make it work like a catalyst and hit start.
fourth, the item comes out exactly like it is as far as stats and hq is concerned, but just with a new color.

there's no reason for you to lose your hq status of gear just because you put a color on it nor is there a reason for a horribly made piece of gear to become high quality because you put some paint on it. you should not forget how to put on a pair of gloves just because it went from undyed to red.

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addition 5.

go to around halfway in between the amount of materials you made previously to what they have been changed to. there's no reason materials such as yarn was reduced from 12 to 1. a reduction i can understand, but these just added to the grind people are complaining about. you now have to gather anywhere from 4 to 12 times the same amount of mats and make 20+ more synths just to get the same amount of materials. this is just extra time and effort put in with no sp rewards for your effort.

ok i know this is long and i will get alot of tl:dr, but this post was about giving ideas about how to make the system better and there are some. these don't touch the actual grind itself nor the mini game itself, but it would make the crafting seem more involved and less tedious in the meantime.

[Sypherblade]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
addition 1.

this i like. there was also an idea that the starting quality of the synth should not change due to hq materials being used. here's a basic example.

now:
hq materials used = @160 durability and 300quality.

changed:
hq materials used = @200 durbaility and 0 quality.

these would require you to actually play the game and use the abilities to get an item as a higher tier item. in other words, no more standard to completion then massive amounts of touch ups. they seem set on using a hq system that has a 100% hq rate so why not let the hq rate be entirely dependent on the quality of the synth.

now:
get 50 quality and touch up touch up and get a +2, but get 300 and after touch ups get nq.

after:
get less than 100 quality and get nq with a small chance at a +1, get to 100 quality and get a sure +1 with a shot at a +2, get to 150 and get a +2 with a shot at a +3, and get over 200 and get +3 gear.

this would actually require someone to make the gear using their abilities for a chance at the higher tier of hq items. this would work well in my eyes with the additional ideas you had for crafting chains and basing the sp off synths off the final quality. these should be level based, of course, and not a r49 weaver mass producing r1 yarn for 300 sp. they would have to be like battle as in within 10 ranks or the sp gained is 0.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

addition 2.

add a spot in the crafting guilds in which people that are looking for a certain item and cannot be found in the wards order it from the npc there. the crafters could come in and pick up orders placed by other players through the guild and create the item for the price the npc sells the item for. they could get guild marks, exp, and gil from supplying those requested items. it would be a nice way for crafters and other players to relay what is needed in the wards as well and keep the other classes from waiting weeks looking for that one piece of gear.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

addition 3.

make materia come in only base stats. there is no reason to have 20 different pieces of Strength IV with different stats that make up their own unique stack. have all materia come with only base stats for each tier of materia. the attaching process would be turned into a synth and not the rehash of the original repair system we have now. the quality would be based exactly like the hq process is, but instead of +1 +2 it would be the different stats they have as a higher level hq. this would allow materia to be stacked and save a tremendous amount of space.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

addition 4.

change the process to dye gear. the way to dye clothes should have been put in place of the way materia is attached.
first, select the piece of gear you want.
second, the color you want to dye the item to.
third add whatever water or whatever they want to add to make it work like a catalyst and hit start.
fourth, the item comes out exactly like it is as far as stats and hq is concerned, but just with a new color.

there's no reason for you to lose your hq status of gear just because you put a color on it nor is there a reason for a horribly made piece of gear to become high quality because you put some paint on it. you should not forget how to put on a pair of gloves just because it went from undyed to red.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

addition 5.

go to around halfway in between the amount of materials you made previously to what they have been changed to. there's no reason materials such as yarn was reduced from 12 to 1. a reduction i can understand, but these just added to the grind people are complaining about. you now have to gather anywhere from 4 to 12 times the same amount of mats and make 20+ more synths just to get the same amount of materials. this is just extra time and effort put in with no sp rewards for your effort.

ok i know this is long and i will get alot of tl:dr, but this post was about giving ideas about how to make the system better and there are some. these don't touch the actual grind itself nor the mini game itself, but it would make the crafting seem more involved and less tedious in the meantime.

Some great ideas here.....id love to see these in game

[darkstarpoet1]

Some great ideas here.....id love to see these in game

thank you. that's the type of changes i would like to see involving the actual synth, but there does need to be changing to the mini game itself also as it does not require you to actually pay attention to what is going in with the synth. this is what allows people to not pay attention and afk craft with turbo controllers.

the game itself is fine, but i believe it would be a more involved game if they made the orbs more involved in what you actually did. they should make the colors actually mean something. if they made the colors actually matter to what you do on the synth it would make creating a bot harder and stop the turbo crafts.

example now:

white = standard
pearl = standard
flashing = standard
yellow = standard
red = standard

no matter the color you go right through it because it only lowers the success rate by a few percentage points. for each color change drop the percentage by 10-15% and make people actually pay attention. this would make skills such as preserve and hands of the gods a major need to be used at the proper times and force the person to look at when they wish to use them.

the system is boring because it wasn't completely thought out, but it could be greatly improved by just fleshing out the great ideas the original staff had in place without completely gutting the crafting system in place now. as you can see i have most crafts ranked and do not mind the exp being raised on crafts, but would like to see a more involved system put in first because no matter how easy they make ranking the majority will still not craft. changes should be made to make people get reward boosts for effort put in and not reward people that just sat with a turbo controller or a bot and got max ranks.

to show the difference between the full time crafter, the person that hates crafting, and the bot i put out a question.... if you are using all hq mats what is your best set of skills for a max level crafter to use to try and hq an item? i bet not many will be able to give even a few ideas on the best set.

[HoolieWho]

example now:

white = standard
pearl = standard
flashing = standard
yellow = standard
red = standard

Mini-game now has SOME "game" in it. Main problem is there is no incentive to stray from Standard Synthesis, at least while crafting for exp. Making the orb color mean more would be a step in the right direction.

[HoolieWho]

addition 3.

make materia come in only base stats. there is no reason to have 20 different pieces of Strength IV with different stats that make up their own unique stack. have all materia come with only base stats for each tier of materia. the attaching process would be turned into a synth and not the rehash of the original repair system we have now. the quality would be based exactly like the hq process is, but instead of +1 +2 it would be the different stats they have as a higher level hq. this would allow materia to be stacked and save a tremendous amount of space.

If crafters are going to be involved in attaching materia, then this would be a great idea. Turn it into an actual challenge to get the higher end materia within a given tier. A great idea just for corralling all the materia out there now.

As I read somewhere else, can also put in alchemy recipes to meld two materia together. Say Tier II + Tier II = Tier II (or Tier III if a HQ result) same type, and Tier II + Tier II = Random Tier II (or Tier III if HQ) for different types.

In the current system if you have a piece of gear and materia you want to have attached, you need to find a crafter you trust and hand over the items. This is drama waiting to happen. I'd rather see crafters taken out of the equation all together than the glorified repair mechanic that is used to attach materia now. But I like this idea of having crafters meaningfully involved, where their skill actually counts. Still the problem of people having to hand over their items to a crafter for the melding process. If you don't know crafters you trust, you are stuck with selling the materia and buying melded gear. Which is fine if the AH can handle it listing melded items.

addition 4.

change the process to dye gear. the way to dye clothes should have been put in place of the way materia is attached.
first, select the piece of gear you want.
second, the color you want to dye the item to.
third add whatever water or whatever they want to add to make it work like a catalyst and hit start.
fourth, the item comes out exactly like it is as far as stats and hq is concerned, but just with a new color.

there's no reason for you to lose your hq status of gear just because you put a color on it nor is there a reason for a horribly made piece of gear to become high quality because you put some paint on it. you should not forget how to put on a pair of gloves just because it went from undyed to red.

I think I read that dyeing is going to be changed. Might not be until the new servers though. I think "Leather Helm" by itself is enough for overall look and stats and then color can customize look without altering stats and then materia can customize stats without altering appearance. So hopefully dye will be an option that is not even a real synth, just to change appearance: Old Color + Dye -> New Color, no real synthing involved, more like materia melding is now.

[Lebannen]

if this was implemented I wouldnt play nearly as much, and that is not a good thing.

[Bethor]

I would like something which includes bigger synths for EXPing crafter classes.
I'm a CRP35 (only god knows how I got there xD ) and I'm dieing with the Standard-Spamming EXPing.

SE already mentioned that they implement crafting boats with like more than 1 crafter. So you can work together to build that up. Why not just make "parts" of the boat on your own. Like log in, work on the "part" for about 15mins, get 25% EXP from your level and you'll have to wait 24hours to work on that boat part again.

Since crafting partly means a gil sink as well, you can make that "boat part" use like 3x99 Stacks of some Lumber to compensate the "easyness" of the craft.
There can still be the option to spam standard synth for exping incase the "DoH onry" people can do their thing.

In terms of "casual" play it's totally the opposite from what we have with leves. You can log in, do 4 leves, get exp and log off. Everything's done in 30mins-1hour.
If I'm logging in and want to XP my crafting class it's like... I'm doing 10 crafts got like 5% of my EXP Bar and log off. Inclusive some insanity granted in 30mins of spamming standard synthesis =D

The number are just guessed. Long story short, exping a craft is pure numbness and not fun! Of course there's people which find that fun, I'm not the one though.

[Arumat]

(I tried my best to make it short, too bad I'm lazy :/ )
I honestly never really cared for "how I made the item when crafting", its just a mini game that takes up time, I would much rather just wait during that time and have the item randomly come together. I say this only because there is no real way to make a mini game that you have to do SO many times fun forever. Sooner or later you will hate it because it can't be changed or adapted as that would be to complicated of a system for crafting(grinding). What they are doing now by splitting it, sounds good. I liked the crafting game at first but after awhile (like I said before) it just sucks to do for grinding.

The reasons I enjoyed crafting (in FFXI) was for the ability to make things for myself/friends and sign my name, plus the fun of being your own business and trying to max out your profit. I don't know where people got the idea that crafting should be this active mini game in order to be fun. Its a good idea for HQ items to make it more skill(info they know)/gear, less luck, but again, not for the leveling part. I'm going to end myself here, I have a bad habit of going overboard with my post at first and shortening them after I realized I wrote a mid-sized essay.

Last little bit though (I can't help myself, plus I lied about the little part...), crafting can't be an "easy" thing to level, a time sink can't be the only factor people face as it can't be measured like money can, a normal person will most likely not level something if they are loosing something in return that is measurable, even if they will get more later, they just can't see past the loss of money unless they have a lot. If a craft is going to be used for money, there has to be a limit to the people willing to level it. The more people that are doing the same craft as you, the less valuable the job becomes.

Then again, who cares about money right now, its no where as hard to get as it was in FFXI and these are two different games, if they want it to be a normal thing for a player to do then that is fine is with me, I'll miss the "business" part of it but I guess its not really needed. There could be some worth somewhere for a crafter to profit well off of but its too soon to tell how easy HQing will be and if its worth a huge amount (cooking should be fine though, most hate the class and if food is ever more commonly used than there is sure to be a market for it). As far as making leveling fun or less-grind filled, that is going to be close to impossible, the way DoW and DoM get past it (kinda) is the introduction of a new element to the fight, or a new move that they can max out to get to most out of their job at that level. That is all action stuff though and changes per job, crafting is the same for all the crafts and there is no way to gauge your ability vs others. The best gear/skill does not equal a better experience (the feeling, not the number. Better gear/skill does mean you can grind harder synthesis) and a crafter can't show off. Put frankly there is no mental reward for being a good crafter while leveling other than the one where we are getting closer to the end a little faster, and that is really the only thing that will make crafting any better than it is now. The problem with that though is that its only from our prospective, the next group of new crafters will hate the new faster system just as much as we do this one, and we will laugh at them for hating it so and we will say how much better it was than now, but they will rage and say it still sucks to grind, and we will agree and continue playing. I can't think of anything that isn't crazy that will take someones mind off the fact they are grinding a craft.

[ObeiKinstar]

I like the craft system as it is now. No, I'm not a masochist. I just value reward for hard work and effort. I know you can bot to 50 which makes it no work and no effort, but I don't play that way. I will be happy with whatever system they implement because I have faith that it will be good based on their adjustments so far. I haven't been 100% happy with everything but I'm having tons of fun.

I been crafting since beta. My first 50 (I only have 2 right now) is ALC. It took me forever to achieve this, one year really. Now that I've gotten there crafting more levels in other classes is much easier.

If you're having trouble crafting try getting alc abilities Preserve, L10 and Hand of the Gods L36

[Firon]

Getting max craft should take time if they make it faster even i would craft, cause i hate crafting and its not even the grind that gets me its that white orb i hate looking @ it lol. Honestly iy just seems like to me people want to get craft to 50 easy as possible so they can make easy gil.