Thread: 4.0 abilities

I'm going to guess this is why they are working on the "Double Hot Crossbar"
what this is for people who havent heard is for controller users
right now we have is
L2(Left Trigger) gets 1 set of skills
R2(Right Trigger) gets another set of skills
press and hold L2 then press R2 gets another set
press and hold R2 then press L2 and yet another set
with the introduction of the Double Hot Crossbar we will also have
quick double press L2 gets a new set
quick double press R2 gets another new set
this might seem complicated for some but it will be great for others

Originally Posted by Lemuria

Personally, I don't want to see either of those things. I want to see a merit point system where we can stick points into our EXISTING skills to improve them in some way.

There's no room for individuality in this game at the moment, so it's past time they made some room.

I'd rather not this be the only thing if we're going into a new expansion. This doesn't leave for any feeling of character/job growth as you gain levels, and you ultimately feel exactly the same as if you were playing at level 60 than you are now at 4.x's cap. Adding bonuses or additional perks to your existing abilties will do nothing to stray it from the same, predetermined rotation.

Originally Posted by seekified

I recommend reducing the overall HUD scaling to ~80% and also, learn to use hotbar switching. There's more than enough time between GCDs for that not to impair your play and it can free up a lot of screenspace.

I'm using 3 hotbars (using keybindings 1-7, +ctrl and +alt variations, as well as numpads and moues buttons) and I'm struggling to fit PvP abilties (not without dropping some of my PvE abilties such as recall turret). Do mind that at least 5 of these slots are to skills that either add no depth to the job (such as gauss round) and cross skills. There's a few ways to prune or consoldate skills where it's needed. Even if you were to use hot bar toggling, it still doesn't resolve the increasing skill bloat, nor does it help gamepad/console players.

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

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I think it is not the question what it can not change but the question of what can a Merit/Modification system can change using what we already have.

For example..

a Machinist Modification tree could progress can provide options on how they want to change their skills.

Gauss Barrel Modifications choice, once unlocked, can be
1) Give electric shock DoT effect on attacks with it stacking up to 5 for stronger effect per stack.
2) Remove cast and return auto attack with Gauss barrel equipped allwoing players to be mobile again with Gauss Barrel Active but reduce the damage a bit in exchange for getting auto attack back.
3) Increase the damage increase of Gauss barrel even more.

Ammo modification can be
1) incendiary ammo - perform a burn DoT effect.
2) Armor Piercing Ammo - a more direct damage increase.

Rook turret modification can be
1) Modificed Rook Turret - Stronger version of Rook turret.
2) Pawn Turrets - Give all members in the party a mini-turret (noticed by a buff on them) that attacks their target. Alone it is weaker than Rook but if all 4 members can stay alive it can be stronger.

Bishop Turret
1) Modified Bishop Turret - A slightly stronger version of Bishop with a larger AoE range.
2) Knight Turret - does slightly more damage than Modified Bishop Turret but sacrifice their 360 degree AoE for a 90 degree AoE attack.

The merit/modification system can also be the means to allow Summoner to access the other Primal Egi as they have established Summoner's are restriected to a limited number of summons lore wise being 3 (1 tank, 1 melee, and 1 range).

Melee Summon - Default is Ifrit-egi
1) Ravana Egi
2) Default Carbuncle
3) Ruby Carbuncle

Range Summon - Default Garuda-egi
1) leviathan egi
2) Good King Moggle Mog egi
3) Default Carbuncle

Tank Summon - Default Titan egi
1) Default Carbuncle
2) Obsidian Carbuncle
3) Odin egi

etc etc etc.

Another matter would be the leveling of the Merit system as it is the question should it be a separate leveling system so the max level remains lvl 60 or would players begin to obtain points for the Merit/Modification system once lvl 61+ and the unlock of the Merit/Modification system in each Job remain separate for each job. Unlocking only sections of the Merit/Modification tree as players complete their Job Quests.

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I think it is not the question what it can not change but the question of what can a Merit/Modification system can change using what we already have....

None of which that actually does anything to change MCH's gameplay. If you were to give GB a damage buff or a stacking dot, it has no change how a MCH plays, while the removal if cast times is straight up removing an existing mechanic to begin with. That's the perfect example of an illusion of choice where it doesn't have an influence on how you play the job. A better alternative (which was one of their scrapped ideas) is the concept of multiple attachments that augment your attacks, sort of like a stance. You'd have a choice of weaker, higher TP cost aoe weaponskills (and do away with spread shot, which is an exact copy of spread shot), or a stronger, less TP efficent attachment with more emphasis on DPS than sustainability, or not using an attachment at all. Ammo could've been a side resource used to use specific skills rather than what we have now for a straight potency buff and tp regen.

I don't think anyone wants to be playing the exact same job in the exact same manner at level 70 cap when it as when it was 60. I'm not opposed ot the idea of a merit system to offer some form of customization (even if it does lead to the inevitable min/maxing and cookie cutters), but I don't want that to be the only thing that's supposed to be the growth to our character, because there isn't any feeling of growth or evolution.

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

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I extended the description a bit since you last posted. Check on it when you have the time.

Back on topic:

Those were just small examples as I do have much more gameplay changing examples on some of the skills but I rather not use them as example as those are just wishful thinking.

As for introducing new skills to expands on Jobs the merit/modification can do that assuming effort and consideration how it changes certain skills and combos was put into it. As other have said there is a point when adding more skills does become a burden than actual growth of a character and completely changing a gameplay style for the job from what it was can have some negative effects as we saw in 3.0 when they completely changed the game play for Bards.

Adding new skills to expand on current rotation can also be a burden as well as we see in Dragoons dealing with a RNG 4th combo while trying to maintain their new buff changing them from their more simple direct gameplay into a more RNG position depended gameplay. They expanded on Dragoon combos along with trying to change the gameplay style from its origial simple melee DPS base gameplay into a more maintain combo buff style gameplay but we already have that with Monk.

Not to mention they may start running out of ideas on how to expand a Job's combo as we see with paladin's 4th combo skill introduced in 3.0 being a simple 350 potency direct damage skill with no Tank Job effects on it other than pure damage.

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I extended the description a bit since you last posted. Check on it when you have the time.


As for introducing new skills to expands on Jobs the merit/modification can do that assuming effort and consideration how it changes certain skills and combos was put into it. As other have said there is a point when adding more skills does become a burden than actual growth of a character and completely changing a gameplay style for the job from what it was can have some negative effects as we saw in 3.0 when they completely changed the game play for Bards.

This is where they need to put their thought process to the work. There's really little reason for BRD to have the exact same mechanic as MCH, minus being initially designed with it in mind. The merit system is fine, but by itself I'd hardly justify it as something that expands on your character for the next 10 levels.

I'm not buying into the idea that my MCH "grows" by having their turret (which already has few interaction) doing more damage, but rather something that allows me to interact with my turret through the form of trick shots or micro-management, much like how I didn't buy how my BRD "grows" by having cast times slapped onto their ranged gameplay, essentially turning them into a caster. In general WM and even GB to an extent feels like a hot mess that had very little play testing to see if it was viable (and it wasn't, considering they were actually a dps loss to a degree on release) and if it worked with the job's gameplay.

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Not to mention they may start running out of ideas on how to expand a Job's combo as we see with paladin's 4th combo skill introduced in 3.0 being a simple 350 potency direct damage skill with no Tank Job effects on it other than pure damage.

If they are running out of ideas, then they're out of their league when it comes to content design and the game has no business passing off another expansion. Rather than new combos, add in both ability pruning (getting rid of unwanted abilties) and add in oGCDs that work as a inter-combo; Abilities and buffs that interact with each other rather than being a standalone that adds no depth. A stationary melee does that moves to rear/flank via abilties and spot dodging.