Race Differences

[Atoli]

I'm curious if you read all the posts...At no point did I suggest that one race will outshine every other race in a certain class[...].

[...]something like 5-10% taken out from one or two stats and added to another. The lore of game suggests that certain races are better at certain things, but in practice it is the opposite.

5-10% is a lot. It's by far enough to let one race outshine another one.
Actually, everything except for the 3 STR you quoted is enough to force people to play a race they don't like just to be good in a certain class..which is, btw, not even making any sense at all, because we are supposed to rank up ALL classes.

Oh, and yes, I DID read all the posts in this thread.

A Roedagyn CNJ should not have the exact same base stats as a Lalafell CNJ.

So a person HAS to be stupid and unable to listen to the voices in all the things just because he is born with a big, strong body? Wow, way to go for ingame racism..

In FFXI, a decent portion of the population believed that you shouldn't invite a galka who is a caster because they couldn't compare to basically any other race in that matter. The fact is that it isn't true. A galka wouldn't be able to gear themselves using the traditional method and had to think outside of the conventional to compete with a taru of the same skill and level.

And basically, the people were right most of the time, because with such a huge difference as implied, it's impossible to be better then a Taru.
Maybe better than a Taru who used crappy gear and never tried to play his class with any effort, but you have to compare people with the same mindset, and that would be someone caring for the Conjurer job:
A Galka could never be as good as a Tarutaru CNJ, simply because he was "born" a Galka.
No "thinking out of the ordinary" will change that.

And to say something about your opinion about a free-to-choose-game like FFXIV needing such differences even MORE:
No, it doesn't.
Because even if you give any Rogaedyn crappy magic and every Miqo'te lots of Dex, it still won't distinguish peope from one another, simply for the fact that at least 1/4 of the players in the entire GAME have this race, and because of that, the same base stats.
In reality, it's even up to about 40% of the players with Miqo'te for example.

The only thing which will really make people individual is their OWN stat build.
It's the only thing every individual can decide on his- or herself.
And we are getting that back with future patches, so..

Still, NO for race differences.

[Ryans]

5-10% is a lot. It's by far enough to let one race outshine another one.
Actually, everything except for the 3 STR you quoted is enough to force people to play a race they don't like just to be good in a certain class..which is, btw, not even making any sense at all, because we are supposed to rank up ALL classes.

Oh, and yes, I DID read all the posts in this thread.


So a person HAS to be stupid and unable to listen to the voices in all the things just because he is born with a big, strong body? Wow, way to go for ingame racism..



And basically, the people were right most of the time, because with such a huge difference as implied, it's impossible to be better then a Taru.
Maybe better than a Taru who used crappy gear and never tried to play his class with any effort, but you have to compare people with the same mindset, and that would be someone caring for the Conjurer job:
A Galka could never be as good as a Tarutaru CNJ, simply because he was "born" a Galka.
No "thinking out of the ordinary" will change that.

And to say something about your opinion about a free-to-choose-game like FFXIV needing such differences even MORE:
No, it doesn't.
Because even if you give any Rogaedyn crappy magic and every Miqo'te lots of Dex, it still won't distinguish peope from one another, simply for the fact that at least 1/4 of the players in the entire GAME have this race, and because of that, the same base stats.
In reality, it's even up to about 40% of the players with Miqo'te for example.

The only thing which will really make people individual is their OWN stat build.
It's the only thing every individual can decide on his- or herself.
And we are getting that back with future patches, so..

Still, NO for race differences.

And again, you take your argument to the extreme to try to prove your point. Have you looked the stats in the game? At 50, you average between 150-200 of a given base stat. 5-10% of that is between 7-20 points. That is... you guessed it... one tier IV materia. If you think that difference is enough to ruin a class for any race, you are just plain wrong.

And yes, there should be racism in a game that has more than one bloody race. Its not the same kind of racism that exists in our world because we are all one race.

I do agree that the individual stat builds will be a great improvement but it will still lead to people having the same basic stat layout. There is going to be someone, some where, that figures out exactly how much piety, int, and mnd is best for a fight. That doesn't create a difference in characters, it just creates an extra step to get to clones of each other, just in different bodies.

[Atoli]

And again, you take your argument to the extreme to try to prove your point.

Someone posted before me how great the difference is even without taking things to extremes, so I won't answer on that part.
Just: The 7 points difference you mentioned is what we already HAVE, therefore: no need to change anything.

There is going to be someone, some where, that figures out exactly how much piety, int, and mnd is best for a fight. That doesn't create a difference in characters, it just creates an extra step to get to clones of each other, just in different bodies.

That's always going to happen. But you at least have the choice to be different.
Forced individuality is no real individuality.
Having the choice to be what you want to be is individuality, even if you decide to be the same as others.
I think you need to understand that.

Btw, you just ignored the part of my post that was the strongest argument against what you said:
You want race differences for more individuality.
1. Base stats have pretty much no effect on individuality, because what matters is what people add their points to later.
2. About 35% of the players are Miqo'tes, 40% are Hyur and 25% are Lalafell and Elezen.
But even if every race would only be 25% of the ingame population, it would mean every 4th player I meet has the same stats as me. Great individuality..

[Ryans]

Btw, you just ignored the part of my post that was the strongest argument against what you said:
You want race differences for more individuality.
1. Base stats have pretty much no effect on individuality, because what matters is what people add their points to later.
2. About 35% of the players are Miqo'tes, 40% are Hyur and 25% are Lalafell and Elezen.
But even if every race would only be 25% of the ingame population, it would mean every 4th player I meet has the same stats as me. Great individuality..

I didn't ignore your argument for the sake of not wanting to be proved wrong, it just had no barring on what I am proposing. The point is to make the races individual, not each player. I want you to be the same as other members of the same race, to a degree. I don't want you to be the same as every other player of the same class.

As others have mentioned, the community "forces" people into the ideal method of how the game ought to be played. Giving everyone the ability to be individual in every aspect of their character only breeds conformity. This isn't true in reality, but in a game, it is very true. However if the game is designed to have minor differences between a few selections that players get to pick from then at least something is actually individualized to smaller groups, instead of the whole being identical.

[Atoli]

As others have mentioned, the community "forces" people into the ideal method of how the game ought to be played. Giving everyone the ability to be individual in every aspect of their character only breeds conformity. This isn't true in reality, but in a game, it is very true.

But that's also where the difference lies.
While a community can surely be very forcing in HOW a class has to be played, as long as you have the option to do it differently technical-wise, you can do it.
Forcing people to be the same by game machanisms is really killing ANY individuality.
And no, being equally good or bad as just 1/4 of all players is not making me feel less conform.

Well, seeing how the majority is against your idea..I'm not really bothered by it, because I doubt it will be implemented against the will of most players

What I like though is the idea of having gameplay differences for the races.
I forgot who proposed it, but I liked it..like..certain races having to pay more in shops of certain NPCs, stuff like that.

[Shneibel]

But that's also where the difference lies.
While a community can surely be very forcing in HOW a class has to be played, as long as you have the option to do it differently technical-wise, you can do it.
Forcing people to be the same by game machanisms is really killing ANY individuality.
And no, being equally good or bad as just 1/4 of all players is not making me feel less conform.

Well, seeing how the majority is against your idea..I'm not really bothered by it, because I doubt it will be implemented against the will of most players

What I like though is the idea of having gameplay differences for the races.
I forgot who proposed it, but I liked it..like..certain races having to pay more in shops of certain NPCs, stuff like that.

it wont, this isnt thefisrt thread about this matter and always heavy against the idea