WAR vs. DRK: Philosophy

[Cilia]

So some time ago, after my gushing (gushing!) on the well-done DRK 30-50 line, someone asked me if there was any correlation between the Inner Beast and "Fray" (your Shadow / Dark Side). Now that I've finally gotten around to finishing WAR 30-50, I can answer that.

Yes there is!

In the WAR 30-50 line, Curious Gorge is training you, or at least imparting techniques that he knows while you help him search for his brother, Broken Mountain. However once you fend off some monsters at Wineport during the 50 quest, Curious Gorge fights a berserked Broken Mountain in the city and crushes him by giving in to his own Inner Beast. Before the battle he rants about how great he is, about how he's the true Warrior, about how he's going to bring his village back to glory, etc. After you manage to overcome him, however, he admits to you that he was deluding himself - he knew all along that Broken Mountain had succumbed, and that the way of his village was wrong because it preached using rage to solve everything.

That self-delusion is the key.

Throughout the DRK 30-50 line, "Fray" constantly chides you for being heroic and self-sacrificing despite the fact you get nothing in return, as if you're deluding yourself into thinking that's what you want and/or that people are good. It comes to a head in the 50 quest, where your Shadow manifests independent of Fray's body and challenges you to overcome it.

It's very similar to Curious Gorge succumbing to his Inner Beast - the only difference is that your Shadow is an independent manifestation, while the Inner Beast lacks this ability. However if Curious Gorge was a DRK instead I can only surmise that his own Shadow would behave quite similarly to how he was after succumbing... with less implacable rage, but even so.

That said, there is a fundamental difference between what drives a DRK and a WAR: WAR is driven by the primal lust for blood and violence, while DRK fuels itself with hate and rage toward injustice. Their powers are also significantly different, but that's plainly visible in their gameplay mechanics.

So yes, there is likely a strong correlation between the Shadow and Inner Beast, even if that wasn't intended from the first.

[Grayve]

Very neat. As a fellow lover of the DRK, I always enjoy your posts and insights.

[Tenkuu]

I think another way to understand it is that the WAR way (rage) was wrong, as depicted by the fact that there's no longer any glory associated with being a WAR; whereas with DRK, the way (love) seems to have been the right one but known only to a few.

[Cilia]

I think another way to understand it is that the WAR way (rage) was wrong, as depicted by the fact that there's no longer any glory associated with being a WAR; whereas with DRK, the way (love) seems to have been the right one but known only to a few.

The self-delusion is different, but it's still the thread that connects the two.

Curious Gorge gives in to his Inner Beast before ranting about how awesome he is, how he's the true Warrior and you're just a pale imitation of one, etc. "Fray," on the other hand, admonishes you for being self-sacrificing and acting as if you're OK with it and the abuse people heap on you while getting nothing in return - again, as if you're deluding yourself into believing that, in your heart of hearts, is what you really want. Then remember that "Fray" is you, and it all becomes clear...

The key to mastering both powers lies in self-acceptance, but also knowing when to put away the "darkness." Where Curious Gorge and Broken Mountain fail is their inability to put away their pride and bloodlust, turning them into raging beasts - a fearsome sight on the battlefield, to be sure, but you're stronger than them because you know when to put the Inner Beast away and refuse to succumb. Mastering the power of darkness is rather similar - most everyone has the dark impulses Dark Knights channel, but because you know who to direct it at and refuse to give in to hatred, you're able to use that power without falling. (Of course, love is also required to use the power of “darkness” to its fullest extent, but that’s another matter. Sorta.)

In essence both draw from similarly "dark" emotions, but you're able to do what others are not by accepting that "darkness" as a part of yourself without letting it control you. DRK is a much closer shave, as you never show signs of succumbing as a WAR, but that's due to the soulstone reacting in an abnormal and unexpected manner.

[DamianFatale]

I don't know why, but there's something so simple, and fluid about the dark knight class. I absolutely love it, and now that I see this, I love it more! Thank you for this wonderful insight.

[Tenkuu]

The self-delusion is different, but it's still the thread that connects the two.

Curious Gorge gives in to his Inner Beast before ranting about how awesome he is, how he's the true Warrior and you're just a pale imitation of one, etc. "Fray," on the other hand, admonishes you for being self-sacrificing and acting as if you're OK with it and the abuse people heap on you while getting nothing in return - again, as if you're deluding yourself into believing that, in your heart of hearts, is what you really want. Then remember that "Fray" is you, and it all becomes clear...

But Fray was not wrong in what he said, whereas Curious Gorge was. Actually, what Fray says is essentially the same admonition the Scions had for Thancred in 2.0, that he was taking too much upon himself alone and being too hard on himself for his failures (perceived or actual). Curious Gorge on the other hand is essentially just bad-mouthing you at that point.

The key to mastering both powers lies in self-acceptance, but also knowing when to put away the "darkness." Where Curious Gorge and Broken Mountain fail is their inability to put away their pride and bloodlust, turning them into raging beasts - a fearsome sight on the battlefield, to be sure, but you're stronger than them because you know when to put the Inner Beast away and refuse to succumb. Mastering the power of darkness is rather similar - most everyone has the dark impulses Dark Knights channel, but because you know who to direct it at and refuse to give in to hatred, you're able to use that power without falling. (Of course, love is also required to use the power of “darkness” to its fullest extent, but that’s another matter. Sorta.)

True, but my point was that DRK originated from a better place, ie righting a wrong. In other words, they had the right intentions from the beginning, and those who did not lose themselves were the few who knew the "love" secret to its power. With WAR, it seems to be the case that they all succumbed to losing control of their power because of rage. Though I'm actually unclear on whether Fray (the real Fray) is considered as one who discovered the secret to DRK power or whether he failed.

In essence both draw from similarly "dark" emotions, but you're able to do what others are not by accepting that "darkness" as a part of yourself without letting it control you. DRK is a much closer shave, as you never show signs of succumbing as a WAR, but that's due to the soulstone reacting in an abnormal and unexpected manner.

Well, but DRK in the first place comes from a place of seeking justice rather than glory, which is what WAR is more focused on. There is no glory at all to being a DRK, it is literally about doing what you alone feel is right. Even with the "dark" name attached to it, DRK still felt much more natural than WAR.

[Toranja]

I think another way to understand it is that the WAR way (rage) was wrong, as depicted by the fact that there's no longer any glory associated with being a WAR; whereas with DRK, the way (love) seems to have been the right one but known only to a few.

I am offended at even such a suggestion! Dark Knights have no great deeds to call their own, while my ilk has wrestles with BEARS! MOUNTAIN BEARS!

HULK ANGRY!11!!!!one1one!1

[Grayve]

Cilia is now a roe, and that really threw me.... I'm used to that dark haired female... ( am I the only one that looks at the pictures rather then names? Probably!)

[Cilia]

Cilia is now a roe, and that really threw me.... I'm used to that dark haired female... ( am I the only one that looks at the pictures rather then names? Probably!)

The number of lizard waifus running around was too high for my taste, and providing some fanservice for the ladies is a civic duty. Civic duty!

My only regret... is that I need new swimsuits...

Apropos of nothing, sparkling water tastes terrible. Like really, really watered-down soda.

[SuperFlorinjin]

Ever play the game Persona 4? I'm only at 45 on the DRK story but I always thought that the Shadows from that game are similar to Fray. Basically the concept is that your Shadow is the part of you that you reject, the parts of your personality that you don't want to admit exist. For instance one of the characters says he's on the adventure to get justice for a murdered classmate he had a crush on, but his Shadow reveals that he's actually doing it to stave off small town boredom. The Shadows can't be defeated unless a person accepts the Shadow as being a true part of them, but it's also important to realize that your Shadow isn't the whole truth. So while it's true that part of the WoL may be tired of everyone dumping their problems on him/her only to be taken for granted or betrayed it's also true that the WoL is doing this stuff because it's the right thing to do.