The Joy of Crafting

[Ferth]

Granted I haven't had to plumb the depths of the crafting system in it's entirety, given that my highest crafting class is only 28...

But even at this juncture (which as I understand it isn't even a third of the way done with the sheer amount of exp needed to grind to get to level 50...) I just hate the process. Hate it so much that in 4 crafts I end up feeling like I need to punch someone. I never get the impression that any understanding I have of orb status, stats, or inputs ever overcome the sheer dumb luck and random chance that is involved in the system.

I can have one synth that yields 700 exp and it can go flawlessly. Not one "failure." And then the next 4 attempts will be nothing but failures. And some of those can be so riddled with failures yet I still somehow manage to pull off a successful synth, or sometimes I will start out well, be fairly confident that I will succeed and then get a critical failure followed by a destabilization and end up failing the synth.

It's an emotional roller coaster... which in and of itself is not a bad thing... but then tie in the fact that it's an emotional rollercoaster for hours on end if you actually want to achieve anything and it just wears you out.

After half an hour of crafting I can be just drained... frustrated... annoyed... and ready to commit violence... And that is not what I want out of a game.

If you can deal with that then bravo for you... But I'm fairly confident when I say that you are the minority.

I'm not arguing that everything needs to be dumbed down... I'm pretty sure that's where it's headed regardless of what we do or say at this juncture... but I recognize some of the value in the current system and agree that it would be nice if it could be maintained...

But at the same time if I have to choose between crafting as it is right now and something significantly simpler... I'd probably go for something simpler just because right now crafting is an extreme exercise in patience if you actually try to become invested in the system.

[Sephrick]

I was thinking about how crafting feels like messing with an orb rigged with explosives. Then it hit me, crafting is just like playing this

Best possible description I've seen.

[Okiura]

I was thinking about how crafting feels like messing with an orb rigged with explosives. Then it hit me, crafting is just like playing this

Actually imo this is pretty accurate, you are given all the clues on what safe to do and if you do it right you should suceed almost every time, there are gonna be occacions where there is no clear choice and you have to just go for it and of course "failure is always an option".

Also if you set up 10 mines on a 10x10 grid you can just mash left click and after a few games of that you'll find it boaring and tedious, or you could set up 40 mines on a 10x10 grid not too tricky but you have to work to complete it and you have that sense of aceviement once you do, obviously the main diffrence is in minesweeper the reward is the same smiley face with shades, with crafting the exp is much grater for the tougher option.

[Okiura]

@Hachiko: The random/luck aspect is such a small factor especially while completing a synth, unstable element and failed actions are uncommon and when the occour they are easilly managed.
This is not luck this is the right gear on the right class using the right skill. You wouldn't Stack PIE on GLA give them mage gear and expect them to tank would you, crafting is exactly the same. each DoH class has a stat that need to be boost and a secondarry stat alos get these up and learn/set the right abilities and you will rarley fail. i'm sorry to say the people that say this aspect is entirlly bassed on randomness are very wrong.

HQ'n well that's a diffrent Story and i mentioned that in my orignal post.

DoL now has one big flaw post 1.19... the mini game is now just an inconvenience. once you select where to set your notch and hit strike you can tell exactly where to stop the bar/ring to hit what you were aming for. there is no Skill in DoL anymore if you ever miss or fail a gathering attempt now then you either very tired or had a bit too much to drink.

This is very wrong cos what you have now is a mini game that guarantees 100% sucess while gathering and the only luck aspect is wether it's the item you set the notch for or not.
As DoL is now, the mini game has a 0% infulance on the outcome and that is sad. If crafting became as linear as DoL where you were guarnteed a 100% sucess rate it'll become very boarding and tedious like DoL is post 1.19.

[Hachiko]

@Hachiko: The random/luck aspect is such a small factor especially while completing a synth, unstable element and failed actions are uncommon and when the occour they are easilly managed.
This is not luck this is the right gear on the right class using the right skill. You wouldn't Stack PIE on GLA give them mage gear and expect them to tank would you, crafting is exactly the same. each DoH class has a stat that need to be boost and a secondarry stat alos get these up and learn/set the right abilities and you will rarley fail. i'm sorry to say the people that say this aspect is entirlly bassed on randomness are very wrong.

HQ'n well that's a diffrent Story and i mentioned that in my orignal post.

DoL now has one big flaw post 1.19... the mini game is now just an inconvenience. once you select where to set your notch and hit strike you can tell exactly where to stop the bar/ring to hit what you were aming for. there is no Skill in DoL anymore if you ever miss or fail a gathering attempt now then you either very tired or had a bit too much to drink.

This is very wrong cos what you have now is a mini game that guarantees 100% sucess while gathering and the only luck aspect is wether it's the item you set the notch for or not.
As DoL is now, the mini game has a 0% infulance on the outcome and that is sad. If crafting became as linear as DoL where you were guarnteed a 100% sucess rate it'll become very boarding and tedious like DoL is post 1.19.

You are joking. There is no skill in it. You destablize, wait 3 synths it doesnt drop you do normal and it goes chaotic. There's no skill. It's 100% luck. To argue that luck has a minimal effect is just you talking out your ... to justify a stupid system.

You talk a big game about gear and other nonsense like not using pie on a gladiator, as if that wasn't common knowledge. I have the best gear possible on my char for my level. I have ALL the conversion stats for GSM and CRP. And yet I STILL fail synths around my level sometimes. It's patently ridiculous. Doing synths above my level and I end up with unlucky pieces getting 2 destabilizes per item. I fail with makers muse on a white orb AND it destabilizes. I use preserve and fail consistently until it ends.

That is PURE rng.

And to top it all off, even worse is the fact that SE doesn't even TELL YOU THE RULES OF THE GAME. No one even knows what gold, red, or flashing orbs mean. They just guess and the only thing that is known for sure is that they aren't as good as white. Then there's the whole items issue. Yeah, we're supposed to know intuitively whether the item requires Mag. Craftsmanship or just Craftsmanship. Because we're all psychic. Of course. And we also need to carry around 2 full sets of gear to craft on a single job, because that makes SO much sense.

It's stupid that your idea of "skill" is rng.

There is not a single defensible aspect of the crafting system as it stands. To pretend that there is is just blatantly ignoring reality. It isn't fun. It isn't rewarding. And spending 3 minutes per craft to get 500 exp when you need 50,000-100,000 to level is simply RIDICULOUS. Going from 25-50 is something like what, 10,080 minutes of pure grinding on 500 exp synths. over 180 hours. Seriously. You think that's defensible?

And quit joking about HQing. It's a ridiculous system. Getting an HQ chance of around 30% when your item has over 300 quality is ridiculous.

Relying on so much RNG takes 100% of the skill out of crafting. If even the best crafter who knows everything and uses HQ mats still only has a 30% chance at HQ item, then there is something wrong.

The fact is that DoL is designed much better. There are still RNG elements, like what you will get and where you have to harvest to get them, but that's fine because it's part of the game to figure that stuff out. It's not an rng element that throws your progress back in your face and spits on you and requires the insane timesink that crafting does.

[Okiura]

@Hachiko it's too bad that's how you feel, although you say i talk big game about gear/skills i see from your Char profile you have done very little crafting so i fail to see how you can argue with me. you still have some skill's to get to help with preventing unstable and stablizing elements. believing it is random is incorrect, there is an aspect of randomness jsut like everything else in the game but for the most part it's very predictable.

what happen's with the diffrent color orbs is already known, they effect progress, quality and durability this is not new info either. And if a element become unstabe the penelities incurred are also known, this just confirms your lack of understanding of the crafting system.

HQ'n has a little to be desired and i've said that in my pervious posts on the Thread. it seems to me you're just flaming the thread because you don't understand the system and it frustrates you. this isn't the fault of the system this is lack of Tutorals from SE and the player not seeking the information form other sources.

[Hachiko]

@Hachiko it's too bad that's how you feel, although you say i talk big game about gear/skills i see from your Char profile you have done very little crafting so i fail to see how you can argue with me. you still have some skill's to get to help with preventing unstable and stablizing elements. believing it is random is incorrect, there is an aspect of randomness jsut like everything else in the game but for the most part it's very predictable.

what happen's with the diffrent color orbs is already known, they effect progress, quality and durability this is not new info either. And if a element become unstabe the penelities incurred are also known, this just confirms your lack of understanding of the crafting system.

HQ'n has a little to be desired and i've said that in my pervious posts on the Thread. it seems to me you're just flaming the thread because you don't understand the system and it frustrates you. this isn't the fault of the system this is lack of Tutorals from SE and the player not seeking the information form other sources.

I understand the system perfectly, and to me this thread seems more like a "DON'T change crafting, I've already done the grind and I want everyone else to have to suffer through it!"

Which is fine, that's your perogative. But trying to say that there isn't a huge amount of randomness in it is a joke. Yeah, getting elements to stabilize takes a lot of skill. That's why I got a destabilize as the end of my preserve tonight, and waited. Waited. Waited. Waited. Standard synth -> Chaotic. Clearly I just didn't have enough skill to wait out the destabilization.

Get real. The crafting system is terrible. And to top it off the grind is beyond horrible. The fact of the matter is this: It's more efficient to level while watching TV and mashing a button, than to go through the ridiculous rng fest that is dealing with destablizies chaotics and skills.

Yes. my highest craft is now 29. Because it took roughly 4-5 hours of grinding a single synth, OVER and OVER and OVER (with 2 engineering manuals) to go from 27-29. It's flat out not rewarding. The orb colors, even if documented are ephemeral at best, because everything in crafting is based almost entirely on an RNG system, so they all mean the same thing "white good, others bad."

The system is virtually indefensible. If I still don't know "enough" about crafting after spending something like 40-50 hours crafting items, I don't know what to say. Maybe there is something I'm "missing" but the system is pure rng. No matter what you do, success will hinge on some inexpliccable factor, even if you have the best gear , the best stats, and all the knowledge. You will still run into situations where you get an ice destabilized that will never go away. Or ones where you will go chaotic. Like tonight when I was at 95/45, only to botch the synth because of Destabilize -> Chaotic with virtually nothing I could do about it.

The system is indefensible. It isn't fun. It doesn't adequately reward the effort put in to being successful. And the grind is enough to drive people away from the game, particularly given how necessary it is now that materia is a "thing."

[UnsayMoon]

You are joking. There is no skill in it. You destablize, wait 3 synths it doesnt drop you do normal and it goes chaotic. There's no skill. It's 100% luck. To argue that luck has a minimal effect is just you talking out your ... to justify a stupid system.

You talk a big game about gear and other nonsense like not using pie on a gladiator, as if that wasn't common knowledge. I have the best gear possible on my char for my level. I have ALL the conversion stats for GSM and CRP. And yet I STILL fail synths around my level sometimes. It's patently ridiculous. Doing synths above my level and I end up with unlucky pieces getting 2 destabilizes per item. I fail with makers muse on a white orb AND it destabilizes. I use preserve and fail consistently until it ends.

That is PURE rng.

And to top it all off, even worse is the fact that SE doesn't even TELL YOU THE RULES OF THE GAME. No one even knows what gold, red, or flashing orbs mean. They just guess and the only thing that is known for sure is that they aren't as good as white. Then there's the whole items issue. Yeah, we're supposed to know intuitively whether the item requires Mag. Craftsmanship or just Craftsmanship. Because we're all psychic. Of course. And we also need to carry around 2 full sets of gear to craft on a single job, because that makes SO much sense.

It's stupid that your idea of "skill" is rng.

There is not a single defensible aspect of the crafting system as it stands. To pretend that there is is just blatantly ignoring reality. It isn't fun. It isn't rewarding. And spending 3 minutes per craft to get 500 exp when you need 50,000-100,000 to level is simply RIDICULOUS. Going from 25-50 is something like what, 10,080 minutes of pure grinding on 500 exp synths. over 180 hours. Seriously. You think that's defensible?

And quit joking about HQing. It's a ridiculous system. Getting an HQ chance of around 30% when your item has over 300 quality is ridiculous.

Relying on so much RNG takes 100% of the skill out of crafting. If even the best crafter who knows everything and uses HQ mats still only has a 30% chance at HQ item, then there is something wrong.

The fact is that DoL is designed much better. There are still RNG elements, like what you will get and where you have to harvest to get them, but that's fine because it's part of the game to figure that stuff out. It's not an rng element that throws your progress back in your face and spits on you and requires the insane timesink that crafting does.

Spot on brother...couldn't have said it any better.

[MANTASTIC]

I was thinking about how crafting feels like messing with an orb rigged with explosives. Then it hit me, crafting is just like playing this

No, I actually like minesweeper. In fact, its what I do while crafting half the time!