The Joy of Crafting

[Hachiko]

@Hachiko: The random/luck aspect is such a small factor especially while completing a synth, unstable element and failed actions are uncommon and when the occour they are easilly managed.
This is not luck this is the right gear on the right class using the right skill. You wouldn't Stack PIE on GLA give them mage gear and expect them to tank would you, crafting is exactly the same. each DoH class has a stat that need to be boost and a secondarry stat alos get these up and learn/set the right abilities and you will rarley fail. i'm sorry to say the people that say this aspect is entirlly bassed on randomness are very wrong.

HQ'n well that's a diffrent Story and i mentioned that in my orignal post.

DoL now has one big flaw post 1.19... the mini game is now just an inconvenience. once you select where to set your notch and hit strike you can tell exactly where to stop the bar/ring to hit what you were aming for. there is no Skill in DoL anymore if you ever miss or fail a gathering attempt now then you either very tired or had a bit too much to drink.

This is very wrong cos what you have now is a mini game that guarantees 100% sucess while gathering and the only luck aspect is wether it's the item you set the notch for or not.
As DoL is now, the mini game has a 0% infulance on the outcome and that is sad. If crafting became as linear as DoL where you were guarnteed a 100% sucess rate it'll become very boarding and tedious like DoL is post 1.19.

You are joking. There is no skill in it. You destablize, wait 3 synths it doesnt drop you do normal and it goes chaotic. There's no skill. It's 100% luck. To argue that luck has a minimal effect is just you talking out your ... to justify a stupid system.

You talk a big game about gear and other nonsense like not using pie on a gladiator, as if that wasn't common knowledge. I have the best gear possible on my char for my level. I have ALL the conversion stats for GSM and CRP. And yet I STILL fail synths around my level sometimes. It's patently ridiculous. Doing synths above my level and I end up with unlucky pieces getting 2 destabilizes per item. I fail with makers muse on a white orb AND it destabilizes. I use preserve and fail consistently until it ends.

That is PURE rng.

And to top it all off, even worse is the fact that SE doesn't even TELL YOU THE RULES OF THE GAME. No one even knows what gold, red, or flashing orbs mean. They just guess and the only thing that is known for sure is that they aren't as good as white. Then there's the whole items issue. Yeah, we're supposed to know intuitively whether the item requires Mag. Craftsmanship or just Craftsmanship. Because we're all psychic. Of course. And we also need to carry around 2 full sets of gear to craft on a single job, because that makes SO much sense.

It's stupid that your idea of "skill" is rng.

There is not a single defensible aspect of the crafting system as it stands. To pretend that there is is just blatantly ignoring reality. It isn't fun. It isn't rewarding. And spending 3 minutes per craft to get 500 exp when you need 50,000-100,000 to level is simply RIDICULOUS. Going from 25-50 is something like what, 10,080 minutes of pure grinding on 500 exp synths. over 180 hours. Seriously. You think that's defensible?

And quit joking about HQing. It's a ridiculous system. Getting an HQ chance of around 30% when your item has over 300 quality is ridiculous.

Relying on so much RNG takes 100% of the skill out of crafting. If even the best crafter who knows everything and uses HQ mats still only has a 30% chance at HQ item, then there is something wrong.

The fact is that DoL is designed much better. There are still RNG elements, like what you will get and where you have to harvest to get them, but that's fine because it's part of the game to figure that stuff out. It's not an rng element that throws your progress back in your face and spits on you and requires the insane timesink that crafting does.

[Okiura]

@Hachiko it's too bad that's how you feel, although you say i talk big game about gear/skills i see from your Char profile you have done very little crafting so i fail to see how you can argue with me. you still have some skill's to get to help with preventing unstable and stablizing elements. believing it is random is incorrect, there is an aspect of randomness jsut like everything else in the game but for the most part it's very predictable.

what happen's with the diffrent color orbs is already known, they effect progress, quality and durability this is not new info either. And if a element become unstabe the penelities incurred are also known, this just confirms your lack of understanding of the crafting system.

HQ'n has a little to be desired and i've said that in my pervious posts on the Thread. it seems to me you're just flaming the thread because you don't understand the system and it frustrates you. this isn't the fault of the system this is lack of Tutorals from SE and the player not seeking the information form other sources.

[Mirh]

Okiura,

You seem to be a good page when it comes to your interest in the DoH. It's nice to see more people defending it as a set of stand alone classes, rather than a flimsy source of items like in a lot of MMOs.

As far as the 1.20 chances coming are concerned, consider looking over what I've said in the update of my thread for some sense of possible comfort. Otherwise, I do have a considerable proposition towards a compromise between what we have now and what Yoshida will be doing - as well as a much more interesting, in my opinion, ultimate ideal goal for it.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...se-of-crafting

I'm not quite sure if you're aware of what is being changed in 1.20, but it sounds to me like it alone would please you. That's where my "update" portion comes to play, making sense of a silly compromise to those of us who aren't hating the current system. Either way, HQing will actually make a difference in 1.20, and be worth doing, just a seperate concern.

[zerrith]

I have to stick up for Hachiko. There is a substantial amount of randomness involved with the crafting system. How else can you explain having utter failure on a synth (barely getting to 50% progress before you botch) and then on the next synth of the same item finishing with 70+ durability all while taking the same approach to to orb colors and using abilities? I also think that any aspect of a game that makes you want to do something to distract you from the tedium of it (i.e. Netflix) is spectacular fail.

[Atoli]

I hate the current crafting system, it makes me fall asleep in a few minutes.
I became a mindless Enter-pressing-machine, because nothing I ever tried (orb colors, skills, etc.) seems to change ANYTHING about the outcome, so I decided it's enough to press Enter every few seconds while sleeping or reading a book.
The aim of a game should NOT be to force me to do something else than the game though..

But I understand some people seem to like it..so how about giving us the choice?
We could have "instant crafting" in which we give our materials to some materials-window or something and, by a fixed success rate, get something finished back.
No clicking and waiting for hours and hours needed.
But we also have the option to hand craft it, an option with a higher sucess rate, and the only option to craft stuff into HQ. That's the one where you have all the skills and stuff like it is now.
You know, for those who enjoy it.

[tymora]

Haters gonna hate. No amount of medicine or pacifying will help.
I was ok with the many-parts old system. I am still ok with the current simplified system.

the fastest way to get EXP is to simply spam a semi easy synth with support for 300 exp while doing other things like watching netflix.

A semi-easy synth gives around 500 exp (+5 levels), not 300 (+1 level). Levels fly by quick if your do the 600-700 ones.
Iron greaves since R41 go go...The fastest way to get EXP is to spam the synth you can get around 70-80% success rate on.

I don't deny the netflix part though.

[Hachiko]

@Hachiko it's too bad that's how you feel, although you say i talk big game about gear/skills i see from your Char profile you have done very little crafting so i fail to see how you can argue with me. you still have some skill's to get to help with preventing unstable and stablizing elements. believing it is random is incorrect, there is an aspect of randomness jsut like everything else in the game but for the most part it's very predictable.

what happen's with the diffrent color orbs is already known, they effect progress, quality and durability this is not new info either. And if a element become unstabe the penelities incurred are also known, this just confirms your lack of understanding of the crafting system.

HQ'n has a little to be desired and i've said that in my pervious posts on the Thread. it seems to me you're just flaming the thread because you don't understand the system and it frustrates you. this isn't the fault of the system this is lack of Tutorals from SE and the player not seeking the information form other sources.

I understand the system perfectly, and to me this thread seems more like a "DON'T change crafting, I've already done the grind and I want everyone else to have to suffer through it!"

Which is fine, that's your perogative. But trying to say that there isn't a huge amount of randomness in it is a joke. Yeah, getting elements to stabilize takes a lot of skill. That's why I got a destabilize as the end of my preserve tonight, and waited. Waited. Waited. Waited. Standard synth -> Chaotic. Clearly I just didn't have enough skill to wait out the destabilization.

Get real. The crafting system is terrible. And to top it off the grind is beyond horrible. The fact of the matter is this: It's more efficient to level while watching TV and mashing a button, than to go through the ridiculous rng fest that is dealing with destablizies chaotics and skills.

Yes. my highest craft is now 29. Because it took roughly 4-5 hours of grinding a single synth, OVER and OVER and OVER (with 2 engineering manuals) to go from 27-29. It's flat out not rewarding. The orb colors, even if documented are ephemeral at best, because everything in crafting is based almost entirely on an RNG system, so they all mean the same thing "white good, others bad."

The system is virtually indefensible. If I still don't know "enough" about crafting after spending something like 40-50 hours crafting items, I don't know what to say. Maybe there is something I'm "missing" but the system is pure rng. No matter what you do, success will hinge on some inexpliccable factor, even if you have the best gear , the best stats, and all the knowledge. You will still run into situations where you get an ice destabilized that will never go away. Or ones where you will go chaotic. Like tonight when I was at 95/45, only to botch the synth because of Destabilize -> Chaotic with virtually nothing I could do about it.

The system is indefensible. It isn't fun. It doesn't adequately reward the effort put in to being successful. And the grind is enough to drive people away from the game, particularly given how necessary it is now that materia is a "thing."

[Lebannen]

I like crafting as well. But I did like the way it was pre patch 1,19 since it then required parts which made sence.

[MANTASTIC]

I like crafting as well. But I did like the way it was pre patch 1,19 since it then required parts which made sence.

It would make sense if players couldn't teleport everywhere, or ride fantastical giant yellow birds, or fight big ogres and such. It also wouldn't make for a very compelling fantasy game.


Gameplay >>>>>>>>> realism, any day of the week.

And that's whats wrong with crafting, unless you're this guy:

[tymora]

That's why I got a destabilize as the end of my preserve tonight, and waited. Waited. Waited. Waited.

If you waited more than 2-3x, you are just wasting your durability.
1. Wait 2x, hit Standard, wait again. You'll lose less on average.
2. Sometimes chancing an explode stabilizes faster than waiting too.

Doesn't save all synths but should make life easier.

ride fantastical giant yellow birds,

Nothing wrong with this when the world accounts for such living creatures. Chocobos are "realistic" in Eorzea.
The teleporting everywhere thing is somewhat unaccounted for though.