[MCH Request] Is it possible to have the 30 second ammo time-out removed?

[Underdog2204]

I don't see the problem with the timer.

Why are people holding onto ammo of over 30 seconds anyway? Even traveling between trash pulls doesn't take longer than that. Why waste two of those that you have saved on your inevitable Hot Shot and Lead Shot? Why ask for a change that could very easily cause loss of synergy with the timers on other skills?

I like the "in battle" use of Ammo on MCH... The last thing we need is something to help boost the opener and I hardly find "if I want to afk pre-pull" a compelling argument.

But yes TC ammo is strong that is why you want the change, if it wasn't this wouldn't bother you.

[Aeliott]

I don't see the problem with the timer.

Why are people holding onto ammo of over 30 seconds anyway? Even traveling between trash pulls doesn't take longer than that. Why waste two of those that you have saved on your inevitable Hot Shot and Lead Shot? Why ask for a change that could very easily cause loss of synergy with the timers on other skills?

I like the "in battle" use of Ammo on MCH... The last thing we need is something to help boost the opener and I hardly find "if I want to afk pre-pull" a compelling argument.

But yes TC ammo is strong that is why you want the change, if it wasn't this wouldn't bother you.

:/

What bothers me is spamming the hell out of it when waiting while people are talking / waiting for CDs pre-pull in raids. You know, the harder content when people want to do as much damage as possible and have no reason not to utilise ammo before pulling. +40 potency is better than +0. I said it was minor in my original post. I don't care about it in trash pulls or anything that isn't Savage and to a lesser extent Extreme Trial.

But "the last thing we need is something to help boost the opener"....what? Removing the timer does absolutely nothing to change the amount of damage output people will do. Why on earth have you just accused me of being some kind of buff scrounger? It's quality of life. The only thing it changes is not having to constantly press it to avoid losing it altogether until everyone's ready, but apparently that means I want to "afk pre pull"? Like SCH, SMN and MNK do with their charges that don't drop off and are infinitely more valuable? That fact you said this implies you're unfamiliar with common raid environments, not to sound elitist. With or without that 30 second countdown people are going to be doing the same damage. Do you realise how ridiculous your argument is?

If the timer remains in the game forever then I'll roll along with it, but that still doesn't mean it has a purpose. And that lack of purpose is why I'm bringing it up.

[Underdog2204]

Why on earth have you just accused me of being some kind of buff scrounger?

Jeeze you're defensive...

I didn't accuse you of anything and if just repeating an argument put forward offends you then you are just ridiculous -_-

Or is feigning outrage over nothing something you like to do? Or is anyone who has a different opinion attacking you personally? Or is this thread only to suit your own ego where everyone just nods and goes "yes you are sooo right!"?

Pick one, none of them are great options.

[Aeliott]

I didn't accuse you of anything

But yes TC ammo is strong that is why you want the change, if it wasn't this wouldn't bother you.

^

Or is anyone who has a differ
ent opinion attacking you personally? Or is this thread only to suit your own ego where everyone just nods and goes "yes you are sooo right!"?

Different opinions are beautiful, and hardly an attack upon me, though your line about "ammo being strong" and the only reason I want the timer removed is in that ball park. I didn't say that and nothing I said prior implied that. On the contrary in my original post I implied I didn't think it was worth such hassle to warrant dropping off. No, I don't think it's strong enough to warrant being able to fall off at all, and consequently that's not why I want it removed, but you put those words in my mouth. If you hadn't said that maybe I wouldn't be defensive?

If there's a perfectly good reason for its existence then I'm absolutely open to hearing it. The topic title is a question, not a demand or some kind of cry for people to worship me for having a pet peeve.

To respond to your edit, timer synergies aren't thrown off since Reload and Quick Reload will still have their 1m / 15s cooldowns.

[Underdog2204]

No, I don't think it's strong

I do and think you are understating it's usefulness... It's especially easy to see how big a change it can make when using it for AoE rotations. It's not as easy to say "well SMM/SCH has aetherflow" when our toolkit is entirely different. SCH's need their stacks on hand to react accordingly to changing circumstances so SMN gets it's too as they share the same mechanics and they both only get 3 per use. We get 9 bullets in the same amount of time and each of those bullets gives us +20 potency and a guarenteed proc, a proc you may not have got without them, so it could technically be counted as a +220/+200 potency for every clean shot you get.

How many 2nd wildfires have you got though without ammo whilst pulling off the same amount and type of shots as you would have if you did have it? I don't think it has ever occured with me, mind you the RNG gods really hate me.

You cannot compare them like they are the same, they are vastly different just as the jobs themselves are.

Is MCH ammunition so strong that it needs punishment for not timing correctly on boss downtime?

No, I don't think it's strong enough to warrant being able to fall off at all, and consequently that's not why I want it removed, but you put those words in my mouth. If you hadn't said that maybe I wouldn't be defensive?

So what words did I put in your mouth again? Oh yeah I didn't -_-

I'm not saying you are asking for buffs to get stronger, I'm simply stating that a QoL change like this could have consequences in the future. Especially since it's on a rather intergal part of the jobs toolkit.

[AxelDH]

I think you are understating it's usefulness... It's especially easy to see how big a change it can make when using it for AoE rotations. It's not as easy to say "well SMM/SCH has aetherflow" when our toolkit is entirely different. SCH's need their stacks on hand to react accordingly to changing circumstances so SMN gets it's too as they share the same mechanics and they both only get 3 per use. We get 9 bullets in the same amount of time and each of those bullets gives us +20 potency and a guarenteed proc, a proc you may not have got without them, so it could technically be counted as a +220/+200 potency for every clean shot you get.

How many 2nd wildfires have you got though without ammo whilst pulling off the same amount and type of shots as you would have if you did have it? I don't think it has ever occured with me, mind you the RNG gods really hate me.

What on earth are you talking about?

The proposal here is to remove the 30 second duration that ammo has when loaded (i.e. if you don't use your ammo or reload within 30 seconds of gaining them, you lose all remaining charges). This should never actually happen during an encounter, as you will either use up all your remaining stacks, or use quick reload to refresh them.

This suggestion wouldn't allow you to do anything you can't already do. The DPS increase would be zero. It wouldn't change AOE rotations, it wouldn't magically make you have more ammo on a 2nd wildfire, or anything else at all!

(Unless, are you possibly mistaking the request for removing the actual cooldown on reload? Because yes, that would be crazy!)

[Shurrikhan]

I don't see the problem with the timer.

Why are people holding onto ammo of over 30 seconds anyway? Even traveling between trash pulls doesn't take longer than that. Why waste two of those that you have saved on your inevitable Hot Shot and Lead Shot? Why ask for a change that could very easily cause loss of synergy with the timers on other skills?

I like the "in battle" use of Ammo on MCH... The last thing we need is something to help boost the opener and I hardly find "if I want to afk pre-pull" a compelling argument.

But yes TC ammo is strong that is why you want the change, if it wasn't this wouldn't bother you.

Nor is "it's already strong" a compelling argument to have a finite ammo duration, especially when it's equivalent apart from that annoyance, Aetherflow, is stronger still.

QoL changes are not DPS changes. Being able to afk while waiting a minute for someone else's CDs to come back and the pull to start is not asking for more opener dps. It is asking for the same QoL that every other job in the game experiences during pre-pull.

Parallel topic:

"...that is why you want to change..."

is pretty clearly putting words in someone's mouse. It's also mistaken, as ammo's strength has never been the reason given for wanting the change anywhere in the OP.

He simply asked, rhetorically it would seem, if it was so strong that it somehow warranted a tacked-on annoyance. I would argue that it is not. On the other hand, I'm not sure what you are arguing at all, as the question here has always been first "should we get rid of the annoyance" and only secondly "does the ability's strength warrant that annoyance". You argue that it is strong, but where is the reasoning for that annoyance being the best balancing addition, and against what? Telling someone what their thoughts were and then attacking a subtopic without even addressing the main point is a pretty good way to get people defensive, believe it or not.