Why nerf collective unconscious?

[zuubatto]

Collective Unconscious: Can now be canceled by actions that render one unable to act such as stun.

Why? :/

I'm assuming this means Ravana's Bloody Fuller is going to knock out CU and that Down For The Count in things like Thordan Ex is going to knock it out now too. But was this really necessary?

CU already requires the AST to stand in a potentially dangerous location and give up doing anything for at least a server tic. Neither Sacred Soil nor Asylum requires a SCH or a WHM to put themselves in harm's way or to sacrifice any GCDs, and obviously neither Sacred Soil nor Asylum go away if the caster gets stunned etc.

So why this out of nowhere nerf to the AST bubble? I thought the combination of shield and decent regen made it more on par with Sacred Soil or Asylum in usefulness & since it couldn't be dissipated with a stun or anything besides a push back just further cemented its rough equality with Sacred Soil and Asylum in usefulness.

[Heilstos]

Hey M'illa Maxwell,

I am upsad because that nerf, too.

I know the Spell is a bit strong in PvP. And in that part of the game a good nerf. But not in PvE! In a lot o fights I use this skill for the 10% less dmg effekt. But sometime there are stuns before so this effect is lost for those Moment, when the big hits comes.

So I have a request to the developers! So make the "10% less dmg" effect from Collective Unconscious like the regen effect from the spell.


I know its the german version of the Skill but the picture should show witch buff I mean from Collective Unconscious

To let the change a Nerf in PvP. The "less dmg" effect from Collective Unconscious is not long or disappear in PvP fights. (But that is the task of the balance team of SE)

And that this Idea is easy to realize the same in the way of PvP nerf of Dancing Edge. And the Collective Unconscious works in PvE the same way like befor the nerf!

My idea makes Collective Unconscious to a medium not more. The Buffs make the rest and can replace some skills from the SCH. (that does not me that SCH bad take care)

And I think Yoshi and the balance team thought is not so bad to cancel Collective Unconsciou with in the PvP with a stun. And let it it so because it had no inpact in PvE.

Pomelo Elmbrook thought the in the same way and thats not worg or so. But Collective Unconscious is not only a extra regen effekt! (look the comment below this one)


The best case to show it (your called M'illa Maxwell)"Spear of Fury" from the Thordan ex. If you are the Healer you get Stun. You can do nothing till "Spear of Fury" comes. In this Moment it was clever from healer that use Sacred Soil / Asylum or Collective Unconscious.

The problem is that you get stun and the 10% less dmg effect is lost.

And so situations can happen again. But time and new fights will tell.

I hope to get the understanding of all Healers and the developer with my request. Because so can Collective Unconscious in the moment not work so great in the PvE.

[Pomelo]

Hey M'illa Maxwell,

The best case to show it (your called M'illa Maxwell)"Spear of Fury" from the Thordan ex. If you are the Healer you get Stun. You can do nothing till "Spear of Fury" comes. In this Moment it was clever from healer that use Sacred Soil / Asylum or Collective Unconscious.

SCH/WHM can still do there bubbles though during that mechanic. AST wouldn't, the regen would persist for the 15s provided the server ticked to grant the Wheel of Fortune buff anyway...but the damage reduction would disappear.

Senseless AST nerf on one of our more unique abilities.

[Mutemutt]

Well, I always thought it was a bit weird that a spell that required you to channel would continue channeling even if you got stunned and such. I can see why you'd want the damage reduction bit to stay even when you get hit by a stun and such, but I don't think it's a big deal balance wise.

[HPDelron]

To me this reads more like a bug fix or oversight correction than a true nerf. It's a channelled ability that should probably act like a channelled ability and it may have been technical limitations or simply greater priorities that left it in the current state. PvP may have bumped it up the attention ladder a bit but the change still feels logical and sound to me.

I think that concerns the change leaves the ability unduly weaker in PvE are also valid but there are probably ways to correct the problem that don't require putting it back in the odd channelled-but-not-really state.

[FeliAiko]

Well to me if you're channeling a spell, and you get incapacitated in some way then it makes sense that said spell would disappear since you're now unable to actively channel it.

[zuubatto]

snip

In a meta way, yeah it's a bit weird. But I disagree about it being a big deal balance wise. If you run AST/SCH, then ok whatever scholar still has sacred soil to throw around for damage mitigation, and if you truly need that extra regen at the same time there is also eos and whispering dawn.

If you have a WHM/AST pair in a fight, however, it is the *only* field damage reduction you have since you don't have sacred soil (succor and aspected helios are roughly equivalent though aspect. helios shields for slightly more iirc, and you definitely have no equivalent to deployed adlo). Being able to still have the shielding (and regen) up through Bloody Fuller / Chanhadras, Thordan's Spear phase or the whirlwind jump thing in Seph Ex was something useful and unique that AST brought to the table that made it a decent alternative to SCH before the soft nerf of better gear in those instances even without crit deploy and a fairy.

[Kabzy]

I think ASTs should be glad they still get to keep a bubble that mitigates AND applies a very potent regen. Under no circumstances does an AST need to stand there for 15 seconds in CU, so this argument of not being able to do anything is pretty irrelevant. The whole nature of Sacred Soil is to put it down for one heavy raid wide damaging move, as such an AST can do the same without wasting more than one GCD and they get a regen effect on top of that.

It's not going to be a game changing nerf, and ASTs are more than capable healers after their chain of buffs. There is no reason why they should still be getting special treatment on every move.

[Ghishlain]

From a logical standpoint, I can see the argument about stun breaking a channeled ability - but arguing logic and realism in an MMO where you don't permanently break your body jumping off an insane cliff or other such illogical things is probably a bad point to tout, lol.

I imagine this change was definitely a PvP change and probably can't be separated from PvE like other abilities due to system restrictions so they made the change universal. Am I perturbed about it? Just slightly, but it's nothing I can't work around either. This is more of a minor inconvenience more than naught in my book.

[Heilstos]

I think ASTs should be glad they still get to keep a bubble that mitigates AND applies a very potent regen. Under no circumstances does an AST need to stand there for 15 seconds in CU, so this argument of not being able to do anything is pretty irrelevant. The whole nature of Sacred Soil is to put it down for one heavy raid wide damaging move, as such an AST can do the same without wasting more than one GCD and they get a regen effect on top of that.

It's not going to be a game changing nerf, and ASTs are more than capable healers after their chain of buffs. There is no reason why they should still be getting special treatment on every move.

Hey Sage Kabzy,

The collective unconscious has got a longer cd. than the Sch and the ast musst stand still and can not mak anything else. Its okay that collective unconscious is so strong. The collective unconscious nerf was made a easyer way to nerf ast in PvP and not hard to made.

But the negativ aspekt vor PvE was forgotten. Thats not so hard for Diunal astros. But for a Nocturnal Astro its a hard nerf in PvE. And only some here play the Nocturnal Astro and gets nerfs in there PvE playment.

And its not to hard and make the "10% less dmg" like the regen buff and nerf this buff in pvp.