3.3 Hinderences

**Fynlar** · 06-13-2016 08:28 AM

Then either you had a bad healer or need to work on your own rotation. The only way Antitower should even come close to hurting is if you're barely making the ilvl check.

No, it usually wasn't the matter of a bad healer. Was usually due to a healer trying too hard to DPS (you know, like they "should" be) and waiting until the last second to heal me.

If the healer was bad, I'd actually be dying over and over, even without me overpulling wherever the dungeon allows. I usually wasn't.

If the healer was an AST, they're usually only encouraged to do this thanks to the way their one ability-I-can't-remember-the-name-of works.

**Colt47** · 06-13-2016 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Grimr

NIdhogg Nidhogg Nidhogg. Some of the community wants "challenging content" which is available in extreme. What about normal. All i want to do is clear it once to finish the msq. But after too many damm attempts yesterday and today i've realize i have to wait for everyone else to formulate stratagies gear etc. What is wrong with clearing normal in one day if you want challenging content do extreme or savage to your hearts content. There is no way a 205 ilvl could clear nidhogg the dps check in the first phase eliminates that. Does ozuma need to drop meteors?? Why make this t9 all over again. You could at least take one metoro drop away from each group. Barely enough room on that platform. Why does the last boss in weeping practically have an instacast that covers half the room.

I'm a proponent of giving more power to the people with limited time on their hands, but this is insane. The Steps of Faith instance has a training ground dungeon leading up to it that drops iLvL 215 gear. If someone is at 205 they can literally farm the new 4 man to get to the gear level they need to conquer it.

Also, while I am commenting in another thread asking about why we seem to not have easier to obtain 220 weapons in the catch up patch, a 210 weapon is literally all that one needs for normal nidhogg.

**Sterre** · 06-13-2016 10:29 AM

**Bourne_Endeavor** · 06-13-2016 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Colt47

I'm a proponent of giving more power to the people with limited time on their hands, but this is insane. The Steps of Faith instance has a training ground dungeon leading up to it that drops iLvL 215 gear. If someone is at 205 they can literally farm the new 4 man to get to the gear level they need to conquer it.

Also, while I am commenting in another thread asking about why we seem to not have easier to obtain 220 weapons in the catch up patch, a 210 weapon is literally all that one needs for normal nidhogg.

My guess is we'll see 220 or 230 weapons drop in Deep Dungeon, which is coming out next month.

Originally Posted by Fynlar

No, it usually wasn't the matter of a bad healer. Was usually due to a healer trying too hard to DPS (you know, like they "should" be) and waiting until the last second to heal me.

If the healer was bad, I'd actually be dying over and over, even without me overpulling wherever the dungeon allows. I usually wasn't.

If the healer was an AST, they're usually only encouraged to do this thanks to the way their one ability-I-can't-remember-the-name-of works.

... that's a bad healer, mate. Healers should only be DPSing when they see a window. You likely found the overzealous type that pushed beyond their limits and couldn't dance effectively. Causing full blown wipes isn't the only criteria for being poor at your job. Basically, you've come across a string of bad luck DF groups. Lowing the game's difficulty won't change that possibility. I recently wiped four times in Chrysalis. That group included multiple level 60s some newbies (myself included) and a mentor. People didn't know the mechanics, the mentor was utterly useless and everyone just vote abandoned. It happens. My next group cleared it smooth as butter. Sometimes you just get really bad players, even a lot of them in succession. Frankly, I hope this new trend sticks around because some people are entirely too lazy and shouldn't be catered too.

Originally Posted by Teraluna

...or leave because they cannot do it? - Now that's just one alternative to players "not growing", if they feel they're up against a wall they cannot get past.
No comments from me regarding individual player abilities. All people are different. I'm sure the developers will keep an eye on how things go with this patch.

You could argue the opposite too. If content remains too easy, people will inevitably get bored and find something else. This isn't Savage difficulty, but merely asking you know a proper rotation for the job you play. Even casual players typically know that. The people complaining as of the moment are likely a step below even that and simply want content they can barely have to pay attention for. These players don't make up your majority audience, and are likely to unsub at some point regardless. It's very telling when Reddit and this forum are almost unanimously against any nerfs. That never happens.

**giantslayer** · 06-13-2016 10:49 AM

Nidhogg is fine. I thought it was about perfect: a healthy challenge but not too bad and things are pretty intuitive for the most part (don't get hit by telegraphed attacks).

Ozma, on the other hand, is pretty tough due to its learning curve. There are a lot of new concepts, icons, and status effects.

I cleared Nidhogg on the second try but took about 50-60 minutes to get Ozma down my first time.

**Yasuhiro** · 06-13-2016 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by giantslayer

Ozma, on the other hand, is pretty tough due to its learning curve. There are a lot of new concepts, icons, and status effects.

inb4 they're used for something else for an unrelated mechanic. I gotta give post 3.0 credit for getting better at this though, please don't change the stack icon or make it mean something else.

**Fynlar** · 06-13-2016 11:03 AM

... that's a bad healer, mate. Healers should only be DPSing when they see a window. You likely found the overzealous type that pushed beyond their limits and couldn't dance effectively.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not overzealous if nobody is dying.

By your criteria, the vast majority of the healers I've had in Antitower were bad, even though with most of them I never actually died, and the runs were smooth as silk.

**Teraluna** · 06-13-2016 02:00 PM

'You could argue the opposite too' - Yes, I agree. The developers have an ongoing job on their hands to keep players continually interested - across a broad band of individual abilities. Not an enviable task by any means. They have to strike the balance somewhere and just see how it goes.
General response to different player abilities is having the raid/dungeon in different modes, but of course this takes extra resource/time. As I said, I'm sure the company will monitor the clear rates on the patch content as the game goes forward.

**Jynx** · 06-13-2016 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Teraluna

I'm sure the company will monitor the clear rates on the patch content as the game goes forward.

The only thing they are likely monitoring is player retention numbers. If too many people leave because they made something "Too hard" then it will be nerfed. If long time players continue to sub and get passed the hurdle they will probably continue to challenge players (Even if it's ever so slightly) in main story content.

You may think people only leave when stuff is too hard, but they leave when it's too easy too.

This game has had a massive issue of there being no middleground. The content is either roll on keyboard easy or face crushingly difficult for the most part there isn't much of a progression slop, with content like Nidhogg and Ozmo giving the most unskilled playerbase some pause may actually be a good thing for the community as a whole. We will see in time of course.

**Neophyte** · 06-13-2016 02:35 PM

It's about as hard as Chrysalis, when that was new. (I think it's easier)
Some people still quit asap when they get it with new players.

SoF (Vishap) got only nerfed because one try (until wipe) lastet like forever and it took 10-15 mins to try again even with mistakes right at the beginning. After week one it was near to impossible to clear, if you didn't go in with a whole group, cause ppl where leaving asap.

I don't see this for Niddhog. I saw one vote abandon in 6 runs. Also it gives 50+60+12 Esoterics in roulette with bonus, players doing relic will stay at least for a few tries.

Thread: 3.3 Hinderences

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display