Give Tanks Tank Stance at Level 15

[Mattelot]

*snip*

As someone who works in business and has overseen training, it's human nature. We try to accommodate to the simplest person. Other MMO games I have played, people love to say "do research." Statements like that are too vague. People are playing a game. They want to pick up a controller (or keyboard/mouse) and "play." Many do not want to feel like they have to be a scholar (no pun intended... yeah... kinda) in order to play a video game. Sure, more serious players look things up but to what extent? People read guides on how to do this raid or that FATE. Somebody at one point had to endure those things without a guide. What if there were no tanking stances at all? Imagine how much more complicated it would be to hold threat and the small % who could still do it would post their "git gud" replies.

[Claymore65]

Many do not want to feel like they have to be a scholar (no pun intended... yeah... kinda) in order to play a video game.

I understand keeping things simple but..."update your gear to the latest vendor armor and use the latest free weapon given to you by class quests" and "start with a shield lob and two flashes, then mix in flash every once in a while" is not something so massively difficult that the average player can't do it. Sure, they might struggle a little bit through Satasha. A decent player will at least attempt to give advice at that point. There's no shame in not mastering your class from the beginning, and most new players are reasonable enough to take advice. Give a little advice, and they'll be better off in the long run than letting them crutch on a tank stance many levels before it's important.

Plus, keep in mind the penalties for failure are extremely small at that level. In Satasha, most other classes can take a beating for awhile. Healing in Satasha is literally "Cast a Cure every 30s or so". The punishment for failure isn't likely to be a wipe.

Normally I dislike "git gud" replies, but we're not asking new players to spend hours looking up and mastering perfect rotations. It's literally "Tell them to use flash" and "use decent equipment". That's all there is to it. If they still can't keep aggro, then the problem likely lies elsewhere. Maybe it's high level DPS not focusing on the same enemy, or a healer just spamming Medica. Now, I'll admit that the 30-40 range for Paladin is pretty rough (Shield Oath should come before Sword Oath), but that doesn't last long either.

[Donjo]

As someone who works in business and has overseen training, it's human nature. We try to accommodate to the simplest person. Other MMO games I have played, people love to say "do research." Statements like that are too vague. People are playing a game. They want to pick up a controller (or keyboard/mouse) and "play." Many do not want to feel like they have to be a scholar (no pun intended... yeah... kinda) in order to play a video game.

Yes, "do research" can be the wrong thing to say. The more correct response in those cases is "play the game". Spend some time doing your class quests and a couple of dungeons and you'll figure things out pretty quick.

You want to hold threat better as a low level GLA? Use Flash! The Class Quests tell this to you, but god forbid someone should need basic reading ability to play a game.

[Canadane]

I only ever see issues on gladiators who don't use Flash enough.
Nothing else. It's an easy fix.

[Kindread]

I have very recently leveled up both a WAR to 40 and a PLD to 35ish.

I have to say the dungeons were so amazingly easy to hold threat on that a tank stance would have been overkill. The RARE occasion when threat was an issue was when a DPS was synced down from max level. I would tell them there was no way I could hold off them, usually followed by some sort of acknowledgement that it did not matter, and away we went.

Giving MRD and GLD the tank stance from their advanced job could also create issues in the future if we ever get any other DPS focused jobs that stem off from MRD or GLD as their primary class. You would have a DPS that could go into tank stance, making all other tanks obsolete for 90% of the content, pushing out significantly more DPS while still holding threat and having a mitigation boost that would be enough to run most group content.

[Fluffernuff]

Giving MRD and GLD the tank stance from their advanced job could also create issues in the future if we ever get any other DPS focused jobs that stem off from MRD or GLD as their primary class. You would have a DPS that could go into tank stance, making all other tanks obsolete for 90% of the content, pushing out significantly more DPS while still holding threat and having a mitigation boost that would be enough to run most group content.

IIRC, it's been specifically stated there wont be any more new CLASSES, so i highly doubt they would add JOBS that stem from any (I.E DRK/AST/MCH). HOWEVER, there is already a JOB what fits this mold- DRG. I admit I didn't think about that implication either. But you also have to remember, just because a class has a skill, doesnt mean that skill HAS to be cross-class.
I mean, does DRG get Overpower? Berserk? Thrill of Battle?

[Kindread]

Snip

Maybe I was not clear, I am not concerned about a new class, but a new job that stems off from the MRD or GLD class.

If the tank stance is given to MRD or GLD and a new class, such as Samurai is added, whose PRIMARY job would likely be either MRD or GLD, they would by default get the tank stance. Much like WAR gets all the skills from MRD, and PLD gets all the skills from GLD.

This would be fine if EVERY job added that stemmed directly from MRD and PLD was intended to be a tank, but I would think they would want to branch out a bit and give players who enjoy those two classes more options than just Tank.

I guess they already added a way around this though with Dark Knights, as they are their own job with their own set of abilities that do not stem from a class. If they just followed this trend they could add anything they want without fear of balancing primary class skills.

[Hasrat]

Maybe I was not clear, I am not concerned about a new class, but a new job that stems off from the MRD or GLD class.

And what they were saying is SE doesn't intend to do any more of that. New jobs will follow Dark Knight, Astrologian, and Machinist, without a base class.

[Fynlar]

not the way to tank by all means but when it comes to satasha you can easily wing it. even with lvl 60's that are sync'd down and in full 240+ gear.

Obviously, you can wing it. You can throw 4 DPS into some of these early dungeons and still win (and if anything, you'll probably win *faster* than with a 1/1/2 setup). If not, make one of the DPS an arcanist, or even just a THM/BLM with cross classed Physick, and you certainly can do it.

That's not the point.

[winsock]

.Many do not want to feel like they have to be a scholar (no pun intended... yeah... kinda) in order to play a video game.

I think a broader issue is at play here. Tank stance or no, the ilvl and the frequency of flash are still important. If new tanks can avoid learning about these 2 things via tank stance, does it actually fix anything? For example, if sastasha complaints die down, but gear continues to be ignored, will these sastasha complaints be inevitability replaced complaints about haukke manor or some other dungeon when their gear becomes too out of date for tank stance to help?