Give Tanks Tank Stance at Level 15

[Ilenya]

Heck, I think one of the adjustments they need to make is to disable soul crystals below thirty, because I'd love to have access to extra cross-class skills. Invigorate would be incredibly handy to have to counteract the TP drain of Overpower spam. Sure, you have flash, but have you actually seen how long it takes for Warrior to regenerate MP?

Do you *want* to only have one healer for anything before Haukke at all times?

[ToasterMan]

I think things need to be adjusted for gladiator. I think Marauder is fine, you just have to use overpower a bit more and switch targets.

But Gladiator? It is the WORST tank in this game no questions asked. If a new gladiator goes to a dungeon such as copper bell mines and get all synced players,(Which is almost always) he can only DREAM of holding hate against all of the mobs. It is outright impossible for him to do his job correctly. It doesn't matter if his gear is all up to date, it doesn't matter if he uses his abilities to their greatest extent (And lets be honest, do you really expect a sprout tank to be able to know his skills inside and out at these levels?). The few levels those dps have on the gladiator along with their synced gear will make it so that he doesn't have a chance at holding down hate. ESPECIALLY if it's pro raider ninja that just got done with his savage runs for the week. Man, even a new marauder is going to have issues now that I think about it. And you know what? Those dps are gonna turn around and say "Wow, that tank was really bad" And then it discourages new tank players to keep going. It is a big problem and SE needs to do something about it.

And for whatever reason. SE made the stupid descision of giving PLD shield Oath at level FORTY instead of Thirty like it is for WAR just in time for Hawke when things start to get hairy if you can't hold hate reliably. I think that needs to get adjusted too.

[Ekimmak]

Do you *want* to only have one healer for anything before Haukke at all times?

...Kudos. I forgot about that.

And for whatever reason. SE made the stupid descision of giving PLD shield Oath at level FORTY instead of Thirty like it is for WAR just in time for Hawke when things start to get hairy if you can't hold hate reliably. I think that needs to get adjusted too.

Before Dark Knight, it was kind of necessary for Warrior to get Defiance early, because everything the job learned required it. Paladin could get away with it because nothing required a specific stance.

But now they have Dark Knight, which gets its tank stance at 30, and so the unbalance is clear. Give Paladin a new 40 skill, and have them learn Shield Oath at the same time they learn Sword Oath, and call it a day.

[Sarcatica]

Give Paladin a new 40 skill, and have them learn Shield Oath at the same time they learn Sword Oath, and call it a day.

Or you know, just switch it around. 30 for ShO, 40 for SwO. For whatever reason, SE gave PLD an early DPS stance which is kinda meh TBH.

[ToasterMan]

Before Dark Knight, it was kind of necessary for Warrior to get Defiance early, because everything the job learned required it. Paladin could get away with it because nothing required a specific stance.

But now they have Dark Knight, which gets its tank stance at 30, and so the unbalance is clear. Give Paladin a new 40 skill, and have them learn Shield Oath at the same time they learn Sword Oath, and call it a day.

I'm not sure how Paladin got away with not having their tank stance for dungeons like Hawke, Brayflox Cutters Cry, and Qarn since that's when the game starts to step it up a bit, at least for a new player. This isn't about the skills it's about the classes ability to keep hate on mobs. Even back in 2.0 New Paladins struggled to keep mobs on them. Meanwhile once WAR got defiance it was smooth sailing from then. Just use a few overpowers and you were set. There aren't any skills you can use that require wrath stacks in Hawke and Brayflox anyway. Of course I can't really speak for Paladins at level 30 because I never went that far with it since I was fed up with GLD when I got provoke. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and they do it just fine. If so then just disregard this.

EDIT: Now that I think about it. It's probably because of the shield

[Awful]

I don't agree with giving tanks tank stance at lvl 15 it doesn't teach you to be a good tank, mind you low lvl tanking is annoying, (for some i.e new players) it teaches you how to tank. If we got tanking stance at 15 all you would have to do is spam flash/unleash/overpower then afk for the rest of the dungeon with no sense of mob management, placement, understanding threat mechanics.

Take for example WoW at lvl 15 you get everything you need for your spec (tanking stance, some heals, extra int/agi/str etc) but it doesn't teach you anything or how to tank/heal as a new player. As opposed to FF14 where yes DPS can pull threat off you at low lvls especially as a Pld since you don't get shield oath till 40 which is pretty awful not going to lie. But when I was lvling my pld and was my first 50 in 2.0 I really learned how to be a better tank and knew what I could handle, what kind of DPS I could handle (looking at you BLMs with your pre-nerf Flares!). The only thing i'd change is Plds get shield oath at 30.

Tanking at lower lvls is fine it teaches you the basics and you'll learn exactly what you need to do and how to manage your threat through lvling and being with different DPS/healers. I love this game to pieces I don't want it turning into another mindless MMO where I just sit there and hit one button over and over again while I watch netflix bored of lvling because i'm hitting just 1 button.

[Soulbrandt]

If we got tanking stance at 15 all you would have to do is spam flash/unleash/overpower then afk for the rest of the dungeon with no sense of mob management, placement, understanding threat mechanics.

Take for example WoW at lvl 15 you get everything you need for your spec but it doesn't teach you anything or how to tank/heal as a new player..

.. Do you know what you're talking about? Because you obviously don't. You are aware we can do the afk and nonsense at 60 yet? Why should that be any different than now? Once they get their stance, that is all that is required anyway. If a tank loses aggro past their tank stance, they're a terrible and I mean TERRIBLE tank. It's practically impossible to lose aggro above 45 for any tank, and nobody is even discussing that. We're discussing low level where GEAR is eschewing enmity issues and OVERPOWERING it against new tanks who get them in roulettes.

TIL the OFs have a character limit.

[Awful]

.. Do you know what you're talking about? Because you obviously don't.

Yes actually I do, I que for low lvl roulette as my war whom I haven't gotten to 60 yet and i've gotten Toto-Rak, I've gotten Halitali I have gotten them all and it's more engaging then just pressing flash over and over spamming it until your blue in the face. A good tank rotates their threat combo inbetween flashes but if we had nothing but shield oath/grit/defiance at 15 it'd just be spam so do you know what you're talking about? I mean you'd have to if you Tab target and y'know use threat combos? it's not impossible at all to tank low lvl tanking, god forbid we have to do some work as a tank.

As for gear I mean it's a double edged sword you can't fix all the kinks in lvling roulette it's just not feasible, and there's not that much difference between say a tank wearing all pink accessories lvling/armor vs someone wearing HQ white gear is almost the same you're only losing some stats/def/mdef. However you can't help someone who is ilvl sync'd and you will have them guaranteed what my point was having tank stance makes people lazier, lazier people don't learn to tank, that in turn leaves people unprepared for max lvl tanking. It also makes healers job even less important the game isn't mechanically sound for you to have a tank stance at 15 it wouldn't make sense and would make everything a borefest and you'd sprint through the whole dungeon.

I also used to main a pld in 2.0 was doing Savage content...so yeah I do know maybe something about tanking. You make it seem impossible to tank low lvl content with ilvl syncd people when in reality it isn't.

You can also edit your post past the 1000 limit just to give you a heads up.

[Soulbrandt]

I'm also guessing you haven't been playing a low level tank, or else you wouldn't be spewing such nonsense either.

[Jukebox12]

Wouldn't this be kinda op sry but no range attk is much better than tank stance stop being lazy folks and do your job even if you lost aggro during low lvls if you aint losing aggro on 40+ for pld or 30+ on drk/war then your good