Thread: [SPOILERS] Revelations from Patch 3.3

Originally Posted by Nalien

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With regards and to the defense of dragons as a massive fan of them in the story I feel like I ought to chime in response.

In my opinion, the problem is we spent too little time with the dragons considering our interactions are limited to a bit at Anyx Trine, and a bit after that. We've got no understanding of why they feel this way, and yet the story spends so much time painting even conservative Ishgardians like the barmaid that drugged us in a sympathetic light. The story and writing with the dragons lacked quality and that's the big issue, while we got time to talk to the lower class and higher class of Ishgard, buddy buddying with Aymeric and other Elezen forever the dragons lacked that same deal. Even Hraesvelgr had feelings of tiring towards the war, even if he hates to admit it or show signs that don't seem arrogant to himself, his dialogue before Sohr Kahl seems to indicate so. Midgardsormr's words just pushed him to give out a trail, to test us as basically any other character in the story has done before, and all things considered (Dragons giving plenty of respect to their family), Hraesvelgr changing his mind a bit after his father's words is hardly bizarre. I think you'd being a bit too harsh on the dragons (Or rather the story failed to try much at all to making the dragons sympathetic when it's not hard to do so). Dragon's have a haughty way of speaking. Similar.. Look at the nobles of Ishgard or Ul'dah, beings of power mean the same way and I don't think there was any ill will to him calling Aymeric arrogant, it's just how they spoke. It also should be said that I'm not sure on the Japanese dialogue, which from what I've read concerning Midgardsormr, often writes him a whole lot less arrogant and I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar with Hraesvelgr

Midgardsormr really just seems to poke his head in when we need that final push, or perhaps passive letting us use his power whenever, considering what accorded before Heavensward even began. I mean, really what does he need to do besides give us a bit of power and a push when we're suppose to be the way the war is solved. Not Midgardsormr. I agree with you that I'd want more answers involving him and all, but I'd also would love more bits about the dragons in general, considering Heavensward lacked any actual attempts to flesh them out in more apparent ways imho.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that Nidhogg wants anything to do with the son of man at that point, even from an "Enemy of my enemy could help screw with my enemy with a nudge" perspective. There's still massive swathes of land in Dravania/Abalathia's spine that they could've bummed around at. Nidhogg (Or rather his shade) does his own dirty work, if Ishgard is going to fall it was with his dying breath (Or again, through "his shade" again and again...).

There's a lot of directions I wish they would've gone with 3.x's dragons, but I really wish we just got more of them. I feel the 3.X series has just been kinda bad writing on the behalf of the dragons and heretics (Who we saw even LESS of). On the contrary, I'm sick of working for Aymeric and Ishgard, but I expect we'll be doing just as much work for them in the upcoming patches as we return to Eorzea proper with the entire unified Alliance.

Originally Posted by Samcaesar

With regards and to the defense of dragons as a massive fan of them in the story I feel like I ought to chime in response...

Middy points out to Hrae that his respect to Nidhogg at this point may be misplaced. The brother he once knew is gone, having lost body and mind to waging war. Hrae may have just needed a reminder that win or lose, Nidhogg is lost, and not even alive anymore. Who does it benefit keeping such mindless destruction?

I kinda wish there was more insight on the dragons or ar least the heretics(would tailfeather be part of them?).

One thing I was thinking, could it be the attempt to take Ala Mihgo from the resistance/Illberd that causes a larger war to result with Eorzea and Garlemeld? As in, the war is not something that is sought, but happens anyway due to the brash actions of "freedom fighters". And unless the Empire just happens to be in dire straits, it will be a long and costly endevour just to keep them out, unless we turn to some...less than hydelyny practices.

Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

*I actually think Ishgard's social and religious structure was glossed over more than the dragons. I remember feeling that the class divide felt like it had a LOT more emphasis placed on it later in the 3.0 MSQ than had been implied before that, and then there's the matter of the Heaven's Ward and the various High Houses being borderline non-entities. I know it's a lot to fit in and still keep stuff streamlined, but I recall being shocked that Thordan wouldn't even try to use his position as head-of-state to discredit us after the Vault, and that Aymeric was just able to waltz in and take over after he left for Azys La.

That may had something to do with the Scholasticate delay

Originally Posted by Kallera

Middy points out to Hrae that his respect to Nidhogg at this point may be misplaced. The brother he once knew is gone, having lost body and mind to waging war. Hrae may have just needed a reminder that win or lose, Nidhogg is lost, and not even alive anymore. Who does it benefit keeping such mindless destruction?

I kinda wish there was more insight on the dragons or ar least the heretics(would tailfeather be part of them?).

Yeah, I feel that it hardly needs to be stated that the dragons care an incredibly massive amount for their family and love ones. Hrae coming to terms that he's got to fight his brood-brother, much less that he may as well be basically dead, would be a lot to deal with. Those feelings might mix with his own conflicted feelings towards Ishgard as well, which makes the decision all that harder.

I'm surprised that literally the only heretics we really interact with are Ysayle and well.. She turned to Aether at the end of 3.0. IIRC Tailfeather is effectively loyal to Ishgard, and is where they get a good chunk of their Chocobos from. Heck, we were ambushed by Heretics with Ysayle in our party on our way to Anyx Trine iirc. Where the heck where they even staying?

Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

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i think there's enough that you could understand them, I mean I think I would even with my biases aside. But there's still a good chunk of people that I mean, I think your comment about Ishgard's social and religious structure is interesting as I felt like they kind of tried sanctify Ishgard to make players more sympathetic to working for Aymeric and Ishgard. I do agree overall that Ishgard got their own taste of the shaft, despite being the primary place of a lot of discourse in the expansion. Some of the details with regards to how Ishgardian internal strife/politics were either glanced over with, weird jumbled, or just dropped completely. Like how we could some how help cause a rebellion with Hilda, charge into the Vault, rescue Aymeric, then everyone around Ishgard is just kosher with us is bizarre to me. Heck our only voice into the "lowborn" of the Ishgardian caste seems to be primarily Hilda and she's gotten a wink and a nudge over the grand scheme of 3.X. I feel like if we got a bit more of a look into Dragon culture folks probably wouldn't be as bored or frustrated with them as they are.

I'm just hoping overall we get more of a look into some of the various factions in the upcoming patched. There's plenty of questions I want to know in particular.

Originally Posted by Nalien

MSQ

Was entertaining, but I'm glad we're done with dragons... I don't think I could stand them much longer... I'm sick of their blatant hypocrisy and extreme racism, Tiamat is perhaps the only one I like but she's condemned herself to plot-irrelevance, at least she doesn't lump us together with the Allag and/or act like we're somehow the arrogant ones... I like Hraesvelgr after he got the OK from daddy and essentially switched sides faster than you can say "Potato", but I have a hard time believing that even happened... They make this massive point about how time is perceived differently for dragons, how Nidhoggs actions are OK because to them the betrayal is still fresh, but then... Hraesvelgr goes from "Piss off" to "Take my eye!" in moments... The way he goes from "I understand Nidhoggs rage but want nothing to do with this", to "This war is totally pointless!" just left a bad taste in my mouth... I liked the irony in us using the eye that sustained Nidhogg for 1,000 years to end this, but meh... His whole attempt to talk Nidhogg down just had me going "THESE ARE THINGS I'VE BEEN CALLING YOUR KIND OUT ON SINCE BEFORE 3.0!", I find the fact that he has the nerve to call Aymeric arrogant hilarious, they're essentially children throwing a 1,000 year tantrum and he claims we have an incurable arrogance... I think Estinien put is best; He had us to save him from his rage, Nidhogg had no one. You suck, Hraesvelgr! For an expansion focused on dragons, they sure were the weakest element... At least the children dragon know their place, and their "You can't even wait one hundred years?" is cute, rather than irritating...

I don't really get this idea some people have that dragons still mourning the death of a sister/daughter/ancestor/loved one a thousand years after the fact is somehow considered a "tantrum". Let's not forget that unlike with any other species, Ratatoskr's blood continues to remain a part of every single Ishgardian, and will continue to be a part of future-born Ishgardians. It's not like it would be that easy for dragons to simply forgive and forget and just move on when every single Ishgardian is a reminder of their murdered relative. The fact that the ancestors of these Ishgardians were the murderers also doesn't help matters. Hraesvelgr up until 3.3 was uninvolved and not aggressive. I think that is the most that you could reasonably expect from him given that 1) Ratatoskr was not just some relative but his sister and 2) he actually shared some of his brother Nidhogg's feelings on her death and could not conceive of killing him over those feelings. There is no hypocrisy, just a long-standing grudge and feelings of deep and bitter resentment towards mankind. Also, that's not racism, for precisely the same reasons that reverse racism isn't a real thing. The Ishgardians have a sense of entitlement to peace but what have they ever truly done for it? This is part of why I dislike them so much: they're arrogant and entitled and make no effort of their own to fix the situation until the WoL ambles into Isghard. They and the unpleasant wintery weather of Ishgard are why I'm glad to be through with both dragons and Ishgardians, so we can agree on at least that much.

I'm very interested to know what Midgardsormr is/has been up to... Since he randomly remembered he exists again and is stalking us, obviously he isn't busy defending anything, so... Yeah... Could have used his help a bit more, as usual he shows up and I have a thousand questions, but all the characters have none... No one even questions him appearing... Was kinda disappointed by his interaction with Hraesvelgr, did Hraesvelgr even say hello? His interaction with Tiamat was sorrowful, but with Hraesvelgr it was basically just "It's OK to kill this shade", "Oh, these mortals are right? DUNGEON TIME!", I'd really like to know more about their little family, given Midgardsormr strikes me as the worst father ever... Would have liked to see Midgardsormr show up when we finished Nidhogg off, too... His spirit just flew up and disappeared, would have been nice if Midgardsormr had something to say, but once again it seems he really didn't care about Nidhogg at all... Worst father ever... Hopefully Keeper of the Lake (Hard) can get me some answers out of him though, he has a lot to answer for IMO, at least he came off a whole lot less arrogant this patch...

Not that surprising that Midgarsormr had nothing to say on the death of a shade of his son's rage; he pretty much already expressed his feelings on the matter both at the end of 3.0 and in 3.3 to Hraesvelgr. Dragons aren't wont to dwell on facts, and as far as he was concerned, the real Nidhogg was already long dead.

Originally Posted by Cilia

Fun fact: Blanhaerz translates to "Grand Darkness" in Roegadyn. I get the sneaking suspicion he's not a very nice person.[/hb]

I'm no expert, but according to this Roegadyn dictionary, it rather translates to Dark Heart.

Originally Posted by CyrusArjuna

Plus we didn't even get to see Solus, so I for one would be annoyed if they introduced a new emperor just to kill him off so quickly. It could also undermine the threat level of the empire if the head honcho keeps changing every expansion.

If you need pictures of him, you can actually see him here and here.