Thread: [SPOILERS] Revelations from Patch 3.3

Originally Posted by Kallera

Middy points out to Hrae that his respect to Nidhogg at this point may be misplaced. The brother he once knew is gone, having lost body and mind to waging war. Hrae may have just needed a reminder that win or lose, Nidhogg is lost, and not even alive anymore. Who does it benefit keeping such mindless destruction?

I kinda wish there was more insight on the dragons or ar least the heretics(would tailfeather be part of them?).

Yeah, I feel that it hardly needs to be stated that the dragons care an incredibly massive amount for their family and love ones. Hrae coming to terms that he's got to fight his brood-brother, much less that he may as well be basically dead, would be a lot to deal with. Those feelings might mix with his own conflicted feelings towards Ishgard as well, which makes the decision all that harder.

I'm surprised that literally the only heretics we really interact with are Ysayle and well.. She turned to Aether at the end of 3.0. IIRC Tailfeather is effectively loyal to Ishgard, and is where they get a good chunk of their Chocobos from. Heck, we were ambushed by Heretics with Ysayle in our party on our way to Anyx Trine iirc. Where the heck where they even staying?

Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

Snip

i think there's enough that you could understand them, I mean I think I would even with my biases aside. But there's still a good chunk of people that I mean, I think your comment about Ishgard's social and religious structure is interesting as I felt like they kind of tried sanctify Ishgard to make players more sympathetic to working for Aymeric and Ishgard. I do agree overall that Ishgard got their own taste of the shaft, despite being the primary place of a lot of discourse in the expansion. Some of the details with regards to how Ishgardian internal strife/politics were either glanced over with, weird jumbled, or just dropped completely. Like how we could some how help cause a rebellion with Hilda, charge into the Vault, rescue Aymeric, then everyone around Ishgard is just kosher with us is bizarre to me. Heck our only voice into the "lowborn" of the Ishgardian caste seems to be primarily Hilda and she's gotten a wink and a nudge over the grand scheme of 3.X. I feel like if we got a bit more of a look into Dragon culture folks probably wouldn't be as bored or frustrated with them as they are.

I'm just hoping overall we get more of a look into some of the various factions in the upcoming patched. There's plenty of questions I want to know in particular.

Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

*I actually think Ishgard's social and religious structure was glossed over more than the dragons. I remember feeling that the class divide felt like it had a LOT more emphasis placed on it later in the 3.0 MSQ than had been implied before that, and then there's the matter of the Heaven's Ward and the various High Houses being borderline non-entities. I know it's a lot to fit in and still keep stuff streamlined, but I recall being shocked that Thordan wouldn't even try to use his position as head-of-state to discredit us after the Vault, and that Aymeric was just able to waltz in and take over after he left for Azys La.

That may had something to do with the Scholasticate delay

Originally Posted by Tenkuu

To be frank, their attempt to paint the barmaid in a sympathetic light rather failed imo. She came off sounding more like a drama queen than anything else, not to mention her whole "let's advocate war when our leaders are actively trying for peace" made absolutely no sense. She was no better than Nidhogg, her entire message was literally just "we have no other reason to live than for revenge", a literal translation of one of her lines from the Japanese version. What did she think more fighting and revenge would accomplish? Did she somehow believe that they would gain an edge over the dragons and that their loved ones would stop dying if they continued trying to fight them?

This kind of thing happens in real life more often than you'd hope. People that spend time fighting one particular group often just cannot accept peace with them. Same thing with a group of people that is prosecuted, or treated poorly (ie religious suppression and plain old racism) and then...not. Many want to lash out against those that hurt them, or continue fighting even when the fighting is over.

That's what I feel this was more about; its a lot more realistic than everyone just accepting peace in an instant after a 1000-year long war.

Originally Posted by Nalien

MSQ

Was entertaining, but I'm glad we're done with dragons... I don't think I could stand them much longer... I'm sick of their blatant hypocrisy and extreme racism, Tiamat is perhaps the only one I like but she's condemned herself to plot-irrelevance, at least she doesn't lump us together with the Allag and/or act like we're somehow the arrogant ones... I like Hraesvelgr after he got the OK from daddy and essentially switched sides faster than you can say "Potato", but I have a hard time believing that even happened... They make this massive point about how time is perceived differently for dragons, how Nidhoggs actions are OK because to them the betrayal is still fresh, but then... Hraesvelgr goes from "Piss off" to "Take my eye!" in moments... The way he goes from "I understand Nidhoggs rage but want nothing to do with this", to "This war is totally pointless!" just left a bad taste in my mouth... I liked the irony in us using the eye that sustained Nidhogg for 1,000 years to end this, but meh... His whole attempt to talk Nidhogg down just had me going "THESE ARE THINGS I'VE BEEN CALLING YOUR KIND OUT ON SINCE BEFORE 3.0!", I find the fact that he has the nerve to call Aymeric arrogant hilarious, they're essentially children throwing a 1,000 year tantrum and he claims we have an incurable arrogance... I think Estinien put is best; He had us to save him from his rage, Nidhogg had no one. You suck, Hraesvelgr! For an expansion focused on dragons, they sure were the weakest element... At least the children dragon know their place, and their "You can't even wait one hundred years?" is cute, rather than irritating...

I don't really get this idea some people have that dragons still mourning the death of a sister/daughter/ancestor/loved one a thousand years after the fact is somehow considered a "tantrum". Let's not forget that unlike with any other species, Ratatoskr's blood continues to remain a part of every single Ishgardian, and will continue to be a part of future-born Ishgardians. It's not like it would be that easy for dragons to simply forgive and forget and just move on when every single Ishgardian is a reminder of their murdered relative. The fact that the ancestors of these Ishgardians were the murderers also doesn't help matters. Hraesvelgr up until 3.3 was uninvolved and not aggressive. I think that is the most that you could reasonably expect from him given that 1) Ratatoskr was not just some relative but his sister and 2) he actually shared some of his brother Nidhogg's feelings on her death and could not conceive of killing him over those feelings. There is no hypocrisy, just a long-standing grudge and feelings of deep and bitter resentment towards mankind. Also, that's not racism, for precisely the same reasons that reverse racism isn't a real thing. The Ishgardians have a sense of entitlement to peace but what have they ever truly done for it? This is part of why I dislike them so much: they're arrogant and entitled and make no effort of their own to fix the situation until the WoL ambles into Isghard. They and the unpleasant wintery weather of Ishgard are why I'm glad to be through with both dragons and Ishgardians, so we can agree on at least that much.

I'm very interested to know what Midgardsormr is/has been up to... Since he randomly remembered he exists again and is stalking us, obviously he isn't busy defending anything, so... Yeah... Could have used his help a bit more, as usual he shows up and I have a thousand questions, but all the characters have none... No one even questions him appearing... Was kinda disappointed by his interaction with Hraesvelgr, did Hraesvelgr even say hello? His interaction with Tiamat was sorrowful, but with Hraesvelgr it was basically just "It's OK to kill this shade", "Oh, these mortals are right? DUNGEON TIME!", I'd really like to know more about their little family, given Midgardsormr strikes me as the worst father ever... Would have liked to see Midgardsormr show up when we finished Nidhogg off, too... His spirit just flew up and disappeared, would have been nice if Midgardsormr had something to say, but once again it seems he really didn't care about Nidhogg at all... Worst father ever... Hopefully Keeper of the Lake (Hard) can get me some answers out of him though, he has a lot to answer for IMO, at least he came off a whole lot less arrogant this patch...

Not that surprising that Midgarsormr had nothing to say on the death of a shade of his son's rage; he pretty much already expressed his feelings on the matter both at the end of 3.0 and in 3.3 to Hraesvelgr. Dragons aren't wont to dwell on facts, and as far as he was concerned, the real Nidhogg was already long dead.

More on the Eyes:

Part of me was thinking he meant Ysayle and Haurchefant, but the way he forces his mind to happier things, and how forthcoming he is about having seen them later on, tells me he was sensing something that he didn't want to think about.

I'm not saying it's Lahabrea, but I'm not saying it's not Lahabrea, either.

I hate you all.

So much.

Don't let my hope be reborn. Don't do it.

Also, unrelated to anything, it seems a bit odd that Unukalhai's instance got its own unique background music, but still no voice acting? All of the voiced battle lines were reused from the ARF.

Even more convincing that he's not surviving, IMO. Regula probably isn't, either.