Dark knight

[Chronons]

A few things:

1. If you buff Darkside anymore than 15% your better say goodbye to all the raiding PLDs. They already have to more than prove their worth in our tank dps focused meta. DRK would become the undisputed MT (kinda how WARs are auto slotted to OT) bc even if you are trash at stance dancing you can pump out more dps.

2. In terms of DPS - OT: WAR>DRK>PLD Stance dancing MT: WAR=DRK>PLD Turtle MT: DRK>>PLD=WAR There is some debate about the exact numbers of this hierarchy(mostly the equal ones), but for the most part ppl are in agreement. Anyone who want to test this common knowledge is more than capable of seeking out the research. Its disrespectful to the time and effort that ppl have invested in developing these forums into a valuable resource to willfully disregard this information for your own expediency.

3. DRK has less representation in high end content for two reasons, its hard to play and its newer. DRK can mitigate like a PLD and dps like a WAR in the MT slot, but only if you are VERY good at it. The skill cap for that kind of play is higher - as it should be. Your getting the best of both worlds. So one should not be surprised to see it less represented.

[Comrade_uri]

Same here, siding with syzzle. I'm all for ideas and such but well thought out ones by people who have taken the class to the limit and know the numbers. DRK doesn't need a dps boost is needs some utility. It gives the party nothing really in an OT role. What would be good for it? I dont know, I'll leave that to the number crunchers to suggest

[Mattelot]

Donjo, (s)he posted a link to a calculator. I asked more than just 1 question. None were actually answered. I asked what triggers people to do that. I asked other questions too and repeated them. That person evaded and proceeded to mildly insult.

Did SE actually author that site? If I make a website and quote parts of the game, does that mean SE is the author. If I say I'm the best player in the game and I disagree, does that override what you say?

[SyzzleSpark]

I just realized the math in my post at the top of page 6 is wrong since it doesn't take into account Scourge's DoT.

In reality its more like 80-85% of DRK's DPS that benefits from the slashing debuff, rather than 90%.

However, even then:

WAR - 1044.44 DPS to clear NEX dummy.
DRK - 972.44 DPS to clear NEX dummy.

972.44*1.08 = 1050.23

Even if you got more conservative and said only 75% of DRK's damage benefits from slashing:

972.44*1.075 = 1045.373

TLDR - A DRK with a slashing debuff for all intents and purposes = WAR in DPS. That means the gap between them without that debuff is < 10% I.E very small.

Hell, even Yoshi P. said this was the case in a past live letter. Everyone laughed at him then because we were all scrubs that couldn't play the job worth a damn but now we're eating our words.

[Donjo]

Donjo, (s)he posted a link to a calculator. I asked more than just 1 question. None were actually answered. I asked what triggers people to do that. I asked other questions too and repeated them. That person evaded and proceeded to mildly insult.

Did SE actually author that site? If I make a website and quote parts of the game, does that mean SE is the author. If I say I'm the best player in the game and I disagree, does that override what you say?

You specifically asked her for proof that Dark Knights and Warriors had similar DPS ceilings. She gave you this answer and then you argued about sources and other things while she explained that if you're going to question things so much than you should just go find the already documented information. When you refused to do this she gave you some already documented information which you're still attempting to debunk on completely unfounded grounds.

Here it is in the simplest possible terms. Square Enix wrote and programmed the game. If someone takes a bunch of data from Square Enix's game and places it on a website without adding any additional information of their own... then Square Enix is the author of all of the information contained on the site, not the person who put it there. If you make a site that contains a combination of quoted bits from the game and your own input, then your input is yours and the quotes are Square Enix's.

Following that, it's your turn. If you wish to carry on with the notion that WAR and DRK do not have similar DPS ceilings, then the burden of proof is now on you. Prove that the information you have been given is incorrect enough to discredit the conclusion that the two jobs can deal similar damage. Make sure to include proper citations.

[Chronons]

TLDR - A DRK with a slashing debuff for all intents and purposes = WAR in DPS. That means the gap between them without that debuff is < 10% I.E very small.

To be fair, this math is under the assumption that SSS is based on equal skill among the three tanks. If DRK is in fact equal, or near equal, to WAR in OT dps there should be evidence of it in places like FFlogs. However, when I look at it I notice WAR on average out dps' DRK when they are OT. The only time I see DRK getting very close is when they are MT - Quickthinks Allthought for example. Which would support the old mantra of OT: WAR>DRK>PLD MT: DRK=WAR>PLD

[SyzzleSpark]

To be fair, this math is under the assumption that SSS is based on equal skill among the three tanks. If DRK is in fact equal, or near equal, to WAR in OT dps there should be evidence of it in places like FFlogs. However, when I look at it I notice WAR on average out dps' DRK when they are OT. The only time I see DRK getting very close is when they are MT - Quickthinks Allthought for example. Which would support the old mantra of OT: WAR>DRK>PLD MT: DRK=WAR>PLD

FFLogs is not as reliable because due to the immense popularity of WAR they are often given preferential treatment as far as making room for their DPS. They are also more frequently OTing while DRKs are more frequently MTing, which usually entails at least some Grit usage, which explains the numbers on FFLogs. Those numbers can be skewed/inflated/doctored but the SSS site cannot.

FFLogs is almost never a reliable source by itself, for that reason.

[Chronons]

Oh, I agree that number inflating on FFlogs is a thing. Which is why I would only consider the average as an indicator. Also, i'm looking specifically at whether the DRK/WAR is OT or MT before making a judgement call.

As an aside we could look at PLD do see if SSS is indicative of equal skill. NEX dummy is 936 for them, do all PLD skills get buffed by slashing? If so PLD is 1029.6 and that seems way off.

[Mattelot]

Donjo, the burden is far from my shoulders. I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered which no, they were not. You're looking at a small portion of the conversation and cherry picking what you believe is an answer. I'm sorry that I'm not going to take a ransoms word for it.

Did you know that 75% of Drks believe they're not powerful enough, including the top Drks? Google.com and you can figure it out yourself, I won't spoon feed you. Not all of us are naive. I believe change should be made. If you don't agree, your opinion doesn't matter because you don't play by my standards. See where I'm going with this?

[Donjo]

Donjo, the burden is far from my shoulders. I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered which no, they were not. You're looking at a small portion of the conversation and cherry picking what you believe is an answer. I'm sorry that I'm not going to take a ransoms word for it.

Did you know that 75% of Drks believe they're not powerful enough, including the top Drks? Google.com and you can figure it out yourself, I won't spoon feed you. Not all of us are naive. I believe change should be made. If you don't agree, your opinion doesn't matter because you don't play by my standards. See where I'm going with this?

Aww, look at that. You're evading the question! Weren't you complaining about people doing that earlier? How adorable.