Dark knight

[MagiusNecros]

I'm too proud of this answer to only let it be used once, so here you go:

Nah man Tempered Will and Dark Mind should be buffed so you aren't affected by mind effecting abilities like Terror and silences because yeah flavortext. Could just buff TW and have it work like PvP's Purifiy but only on the PLD to further add to it's defenses and make use of it's 180 second cooldown.

Fun fact of the day. A Warrior cannot be pacified while under the effect of Berserk. Useful for one Guildhest and maybe PvP.

[Zari]

Im with Syzzle on this. You dont just ask someone for readily available information and then demand proof when you can type in a url quickly and find the proof right there yourself.

And I also agree that if you aren't playing a class to anywhere near its full potential you shouldn't be able to ask for these huge changes just to allow you to be lazy and still do fine with the class.

[SyzzleSpark]

I see 4% of those people being DRK. Does this help the statement that the difference between the 2 is small?

http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/10/#class=Tanks - here, I clicked two things for you and got here, maybe this will illustrate it better.

These numbers are skewed by the fact that DRK is MTing most of the time and WAR is OTing most of the time, meaning the DRK has to use Grit a bit more depending on the fight. If they were both just full DPS mode the numbers would be even closer.

Or here, there's this: ffxiv.2digitalgames.de

DRK is expected to do 972.44 DPS to clear Nidhogg Ex dummy.
WAR is expected to do 1044.44 DPS to clear Nidhoog Ex dummy.

DRK doesn't have its own slashing debuff. 3 of DRK's regular skills used in its DPS rotation do not apply slashing damage - Low Blow, Dark Passenger, and Salted Earth. Collectively these account for roughly 10% of DRK's total DPS. You can find this information on the site Violette linked if you look hard enough.

Anyway, long story short, remove this 10% (97.24) from that 972.44 and you get 875.20. Multiply that by 1.1 from the slashing debuff and you get 962.72. Add back the 97.24 we removed because it wouldn't benefit from the 1.1 slashing debuff and you get 1059.96.

The numbers are rough but they illustrate the point and that is that if you give DRK a slashing debuff they basically have the potential to match WAR DPS. When the gap is that small that a simple resistance debuff will make up the difference, you don't need a passive 30% boost all the time.

[Mattelot]

[S]
http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/10/#class=Tanks - here, I clicked two things for you and got here, maybe this will illustrate it better. *snip*

Thank you for this. What I'm curious is that on paper, I will agree that it looks like they're close however, there is still the 24:1 ratio on the leaderboards.

If you feel that a 30% boost is too much, do you feel there is no need for change?

[Mattelot]

Where something is and where it can potentially be do not always equate.

This is the second game forum I've been on in the past week where somebody said that the consensus says something. The last forum, an actual poll was taken only to find out that the "consensus" was only a little over 30% while the opposition was over 50% with the remaining undecided.

[SyzzleSpark]

Where something is and where it can potentially be do not always equate.

This is the second game forum I've been on in the past week where somebody said that the consensus says something. The last forum, an actual poll was taken only to find out that the "consensus" was only a little over 30% while the opposition was over 50% with the remaining undecided.

ffxiv.2digitalgames.de stop ignoring this site. This site is cold hard numbers the game expects each job to do in a vacuum. A DRK with a slashing debuff can deal comparable DPS to a WAR. I don't see what further discussion is warranted.

I just don't understand why someone comes to the forums for information if they're just going to require everyone there to go fetch information elsewhere for them before they'll be satisfied. If the information we have in our heads isn't good enough and you just want us to link you stuff, why not just eliminate the middle man and google it yourself instead of impetuously calling into question everyone's credibility?

[Mattelot]

ffxiv.2digitalgames.de stop ignoring this site. This site is cold hard numbers the game expects each job to do in a vacuum. A DRK with a slashing debuff can deal comparable DPS to a WAR. I don't see what further discussion is warranted.

I wasn't ignoring it. I wasn't sure if you were making a comment or...

I just don't understand why someone comes to the forums for information if they're just going to require everyone there to go fetch information elsewhere for them before they'll be satisfied. If the information we have in our heads isn't good enough and you just want us to link you stuff, why not just eliminate the middle man and google it yourself instead of impetuously calling into question everyone's credibility?

Nobody is requiring anything, just asking. Again, you have the choice to reply. You make it sound like it's such an inconvenience as if it takes up a lot of your time however, you spent the time evading many questions by explaining why you feel you shouldn't have to answer them.

[Chronons]

A few things:

1. If you buff Darkside anymore than 15% your better say goodbye to all the raiding PLDs. They already have to more than prove their worth in our tank dps focused meta. DRK would become the undisputed MT (kinda how WARs are auto slotted to OT) bc even if you are trash at stance dancing you can pump out more dps.

2. In terms of DPS - OT: WAR>DRK>PLD Stance dancing MT: WAR=DRK>PLD Turtle MT: DRK>>PLD=WAR There is some debate about the exact numbers of this hierarchy(mostly the equal ones), but for the most part ppl are in agreement. Anyone who want to test this common knowledge is more than capable of seeking out the research. Its disrespectful to the time and effort that ppl have invested in developing these forums into a valuable resource to willfully disregard this information for your own expediency.

3. DRK has less representation in high end content for two reasons, its hard to play and its newer. DRK can mitigate like a PLD and dps like a WAR in the MT slot, but only if you are VERY good at it. The skill cap for that kind of play is higher - as it should be. Your getting the best of both worlds. So one should not be surprised to see it less represented.

[Donjo]

Geez, Mattelot. Syzzle may have spent some time explaining why she shouldn't have to answer your question... but she also answered your question. Seriously, just go look at the site she's been repeatedly linking.

Since you've yet to take the time to copy paste it into your address bar, it is a "DPS Calculator" that utilizes the Stone, Sky, Sea content in order to give classes the DPS expected to defeat a given dummy as well as the DPS they've done when they fail.

As this is a "document" that solely utilizes information obtainable through the game we can say that the author is Square Enix, the information is documented at that site, and the last revision is the end of the latest maintenance. The maintainer of the site itself is appearing to be anonymous but the source of the information is sound enough for that to be of minor importance. Here's a few more details as to the information it provides.

Dummy HP: This information is pulled from the game itself by reading its memory. Since this act is against the Terms of Service, I cannot tell you how this can be done and I shouldn't tell you who is credited for pulling the numbers.

DPS: It's a rather simple calculation. Damage Done/Time Spent = DPS. If a computer gets division wrong then we have bigger things to worry about than "where's the proof". For the record, I am a programmer by trade and can confirm that the code for these calculations is sound.

There is no guesswork in the site. It is just cold, hard, factual data. If we cannot trust a site like that then why are we even doing any math at all?

[Comrade_uri]

Same here, siding with syzzle. I'm all for ideas and such but well thought out ones by people who have taken the class to the limit and know the numbers. DRK doesn't need a dps boost is needs some utility. It gives the party nothing really in an OT role. What would be good for it? I dont know, I'll leave that to the number crunchers to suggest