Why aren't the "Basic Jobs" relevant?

[JaySavvy]

There is just no reason to ever be a Pugilist, Marauder, Gladiator, Conjurer, Thurmaturge, Archer, Lancer, post level 30. No matter how you slice it - they're inferior to their counterparts in every way.

What if: At level 30, you get a pair of quests, one that unlocks your "Advanced Job" (Ninja, White Mage, Black Mage, Bard, Paladin, Warrior, Etc) and another quest that unlocks the ability to assign a "Sub Job" to your "Basic Job."

To wit: If you have a Soulstone equipped, nothing changes. However, if you do NOT have a soulstone equipped, and you've completed the associated quest for that job, you can then equip a "Sub Job" to it.

Example:

Lv. 30THM vs. 30 BLM
STR: 35 < 40
DEX: 93 < 98
VIT: 110 < 115
INT: 138 < 148
MND: 87 < 92
PIE: 118 < 123

Wearing the EXACT SAME GEAR - Black Mage is superior to THM in every way.

With Conjurer as a sub, you have an additional 12 Mind and access to spells like "Fluid Aura" and "Repose."

[KorraBelle]

To be fair a BLM has no use for repose what with having a sleep spell already and fluid aura has gotten me yelled at as a WHM by BLMs trying to hit it with Fire III. It's a purposeful design that the jobs are superior but you can still go clear end game content without your job stone even without this sub class idea. what Jobs are in the first place is exactly what you're saying without the modifications as additional mind actually LOWERS a BLM's potential dps.

[Parawill]

Basic jobs aren't relevant because it's an old system that's slowly being "removed" in terms of newer content. Stats aside, there's almost no reason to take in an ARC, Conjurer, etc. simply because all Heavensward skills are tied to jobs and the new jobs (Astrologians, Machinist, Dark Knight) don't even have one.

It's honestly a really old system that has been replicated in FFXIV simply due to it being prevalent in other MMORPGs and it being in other FF games.

[Judah_Brandt]

Those aren't jobs. Gladiator is a class, Paladin is a job. Stat boosts aside, you're missing out on all of the functional skills that are tied to that job just so you can have pointless extra cross class abilities. Good luck Tanking anything at level 60 without Shield Oath. Getting extra pre-30 class abilities won't make up for the fact that you'd still be inferior in every way, shape, and form to the Jobs. Proposing that they make the system convoluted further to have some pointless niche abilities in order for you to continue playing a class is a poor idea.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

Its a relic from 1.0 OP. Its something that, as it stands is detrimental in the long haul to new jobs being released. It strangles new jobs to be a part of the crossclasses it needs to function, and hurts the fact that jobs could have more interesting set-ups. Much like your astro example, all TP based DPS classes will be relegated to having Lancer sub simply for Invigorate. Without out that skill, they would be lacking in the longevity of their DPS.

Right now, the problem with changing it is, how do you fix it properly? Its tough to awnser, and I think SE is having the same problem...

A Quote from a thread over here. Basically those classes really only exsist to keep the game stable and to not add to the already bloated amount of skills we have. Just take it how it is, and roll with it, because you're problem isn't something easily fixed, and can end up being an expansion fix/rework later on. As it stands right now, we know its a long-term problem, but how to fix it is sort of a mystery without messing up other things.

[Rawrz]

It's still fun to queue for them for easy content like trials... myself and 2 friends did that (ACN,PUG,ROG) and got Bismarck... Lol we still one shot it and we had the highest DPS (DPS doubled the tanks, somehow the bard was lower than us, healers did almost none.) It's pretty fun.

[JaySavvy]

Many of you have made good points. I concede to many.

But I'm thinking along the lines of Solo-Grinding and PvP. Sub-Jobs for PvP would make it relevant to be a Gladiator in PvP.

To speak to the issue of an old system being phased out, if what you say is correct (GF and I JUST got Heavensward - I'm in the Military so she's much further along than I am), and the system is being phased out, how many of us would be opposed to simply separating "Class" from "Job" all together? It would only take a small tweak to the "Ninja" quest line to make it accessible by any "Class" or "Job." Or eliminate the quests all together and make them accessible from level 1.

I don't know - I guess I just feel like there are entire idea's wasted. Gladiator? I'd rather be a Gladiator than a Paladin. Gladiator implies Badass Born of Strife. Paladin implies Hero of Virtue. I'd rather be a Mean Mothereffin Gladiator than a Chivalrous Paladin.

[Enkidoh]

To be fair though, your idea ironically was actually offered to players back when Yoshi first took over development of the original version of the game (which ARR inherited the Armoury System from), and was deciding on how ARR was to be developed, and one of the options offered to players was to either, scrap the Armoury System completely and replace it with an FFXI-style Job system.... or retain the current Armoury System but streamline it and add Jobs to it as an upgrade. Players voted overwhelmingly for the later. Hence as players made their choice back in 1.0, I don't think your idea will ever be added I'm sorry to say.

Also, as you said you want to play as a GLA simply because it sounds more 'stronger', for RP reasons there is nothing stopping you from saying you are a 'gladiator' even when you're a PLD - you can simply ignore the character sheet and state that fact, or, only equip the Job crystal when you're in a party and be a GLA roleplay wise out of it (after all, story wise PLD-players are still just GLAs who have learned a few skills from the Sultansworn and are not true PLDs anyway who are the elite guards of the Sultana of Ul'dah, so it's not too much of a stretch).

Basically, nothing is stopping you being a GLA even if the game's GUI says otherwise, you just need a bit of imagination.