RIP MCH

[Cherie]

I'm not really sure bard needed fixing, but these will probably help with bard being currently less popular to take to raids. Mch definitely seemed more attractive with more burst and quicker utility(instant cast turret promotion and hypercharge, versus cast time songs). Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but decreasing the damage penalty for ballad brings it more in line with the mch's turret dps loss when they change it do support mode?

Jet, I'm not sure if you meant it figuratively or like actually but Foe's never reduced the bard's damage (except for the cast time).

I don't think anyone that plays MCH is going to be switching though. Mch still likely is more desirable even so for raids. Mch might want to try out the changes though if they were made to be a mch if they didn't want to be. I'm fairly sure most people that play that role prefer to be mch overall though.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but decreasing the damage penalty for ballad brings it more in line with the mch's turret dps loss when they change it do support mode?

Jet, I'm not sure if you meant it figuratively or like actually but Foe's never reduced the bard's damage (except for the cast time).

But that's the thing, we already do low damage, so why decrease it further? Why not take off the damage reduction on both classes. When an AST uses a card the AST isn't negatively impacted by the card, imagine if when the AST used a card it lost X% of healing potency It wouldn't make sense would it? So, why does MCH and BRD lose damage for using their buffs? It's been a question since 2.0. Even with it knocked down to 10% that means that if I have to play either Ballad or Paeon, with Wanderers on I'm getting 20% instead of 30%.

Which is why I said it's always been odd that Ballad and Paeon reduce damage since they don't lower enemy resistance, there is no real trade off for them to lower the attack of the class with those two songs. Unlike with Foe you knock down a mob down by 10% but you don't lose anything? A buff that weakens enemies doesn't weaken me, but a regenerating song does?

All the songs do in this regard is debuff Wanderers damage increase, which SE implemented to increase the BRDS damage. Less damage on a buff that took away our mobility and auto attack? The class is in a constant state of gimping until they remove the damage reduction as a whole and rework BRD to work around WM rather force it luke it is now.

[tjw]

When an AST uses a card the AST isn't negatively impacted by the card, imagine if when the AST used a card it lost X% of healing potemcy It wouldn't make sense would it? So, why does MCH and BRD lose damage for using their buffs?

Because AST's cards are unreliable. They are gated behind RNG, with only two tools to really influence it (Redraw and Spread). There is no guarantee that ASTs will draw a Balance/Arrow/Spear at the DPS push time, or an Ewer/Spire if a DPS goes down, or a Bole for damage heavy phases. BRDs and MCHs have absolute control of when to use their support toolkit, not to mention it is AoE by default.

It's called balancing.

[Jetstream_Fox]

It's called balancing.

So continually hurting a class they deliberately hurt by throwing a skill designed for a class that came after them is balancing? AST may have RNG, but like I stated and you ignored, is that with AST playing a card they don't lose ANY potency, regardless what card they play they all help out the team. It doesn't matter if I have on demand usage of a skill it still hurts the class as a whole while only providing a small buff to magic damage. If you main BRD I shouldn't have to explain to you why Paeon and Ballad hurt BRD in 2.0 and I shouldn't have to explain why WM doesn't work with those skills in 3.0. The class isn't balanced and that's all on SE for making it a mess. If it's called balancing like you suggest, SE shouldn't have put WM on Bard and caused the issues that it did. They should have removed the damage reduction on songs and added more support based songs like the ones Jehantel uses that heal, add damage resistance, and lower the gdc.

[Eul]

I have my MCH and BRD both 60. And I don't know why MCH is more fitting on me than BRD. IMO the BRD's WM is kinda annoying compared with MCH's GB that you can burst anything with GB on.

[Mahri]

Move along, nothing to see here.

I'll continue being a MCH fun-haver.

[Lemuria]

Wait, people still play Machinist? Seems like the job was dead in the water from the start to me. I can count the number of people I see with the job on one hand, and having played it to 50 myself it's not hard to see why.

The entire job revolves around RNG. You get a short burst of activity whenever Reload is up, and then it dies down to a trickle for the next 45 seconds. Sometimes you get lucky and receive a decent number of procs, and other times you don't get any and are reduced to spamming Split Shot (which, by the by, has lower potency than Bard's Heavy Shot). It's a bit of a mess of a job, if we're completely honest with each other.

[Snugglebutt]

Wait, people still play Machinist? Seems like the job was dead in the water from the start to me. I can count the number of people I see with the job on one hand, and having played it to 50 myself it's not hard to see why.

The entire job revolves around RNG. You get a short burst of activity whenever Reload is up, and then it dies down to a trickle for the next 45 seconds. Sometimes you get lucky and receive a decent number of procs, and other times you don't get any and are reduced to spamming Split Shot (which, by the by, has lower potency than Bard's Heavy Shot). It's a bit of a mess of a job, if we're completely honest with each other.

While I agree with RNG on main part of skill rotation being very annoying and would rather SE remove the RNG procs on main combo from ammo followed by making main combo (split, slug and clean) stable and guaranteed proc always like MNK (which I also play) where the combo is guaranteed to proc one after the other...ammo being 'special ammo' which is buff related like a manually activated and timer related greased lightning buff with cool down period on the skill rather than 'proc' related. I do still play MCH and lots of other people do too on our server. On the topic of the OP, I still play BRD also on my other character but these changes might not make me play BRD more so than MCH. It's too early to know the scale of impact on the BRD changes but most of them seem minor. I was surprised MCH got no love or changes in this patch though I admit...maybe in 4.0.

[Melch]

Wait, people still play Machinist? Seems like the job was dead in the water from the start to me. I can count the number of people I see with the job on one hand, and having played it to 50 myself it's not hard to see why.

The entire job revolves around RNG. You get a short burst of activity whenever Reload is up, and then it dies down to a trickle for the next 45 seconds. Sometimes you get lucky and receive a decent number of procs, and other times you don't get any and are reduced to spamming Split Shot (which, by the by, has lower potency than Bard's Heavy Shot). It's a bit of a mess of a job, if we're completely honest with each other.

I don't know if you're trolling or not.

[Meryl-ZT]

Wait, people still play Machinist? Seems like the job was dead in the water from the start to me. I can count the number of people I see with the job on one hand, and having played it to 50 myself it's not hard to see why.

The entire job revolves around RNG. You get a short burst of activity whenever Reload is up, and then it dies down to a trickle for the next 45 seconds. Sometimes you get lucky and receive a decent number of procs, and other times you don't get any and are reduced to spamming Split Shot (which, by the by, has lower potency than Bard's Heavy Shot). It's a bit of a mess of a job, if we're completely honest with each other.

You don't seem to know what you're talking about, Machinists perform really well in the current fights. They even outDPS most of the other jobs on some raid encounters. The gap between MCH and BRD in actual encounters is really large at the moment.