Thread: 3.3 AST adjustments

Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

Indom is probably the most powerful healer ability in game right now. Also when talking about about SCH and AST aoe healing comparisons, why would you not talk about indom?

I'd put Assize as the most powerful healer instant in the game because of triple-threat action and that it doesn't consume resources like Lightspeed or Indom does, despite Indom's lowest CD time. Considering no one else has 10% MP restore, and with Indom you are using a possible MP restore capability for an AoE. The only comparison AST has to these skills is Lightspeed as a reduced-instant cast/cost resource. Regardless, all three healers have some method to near-instant AoE that doesn't require Swiftcast. One of which is "free and clear".

Originally Posted by Kerrigen

I can't see Nocturnal AST being bad on Nidhogg Ex, but it's also easy enough that you can go with any healer composition and not care much.

There's no situation in the fight where spamming Helios (which is where Nocturnal AST has an edge over SCH in terms of healing) offers an advantage over SCH's CDs. I guess Akh Morn should be very comfortable to heal through with AST+WHM. Disable would beat Virus uptime for Ala Morns early on, I don't think it'd last long enough to cover Akh Morn though. There's also not a whole lot of running around in it, although I can see Lightspeed being useful for the High Jump/Geirskogul/Super Jump combo. Not sure how it'd go in terms of DPS, both WHM and SCH can have a lot of DPS uptime with Regen + fairy.

I still haven't gone Noct AST myself, and that's mainly because of being in the main healer seat for statics I've been with and running with a SCH, but hopefully soon I can get in on off-healer action. D.AST is fine, lightspeed is your quick option in substitute of Assize and I would basically use it early, so you can get it on cooldown in-time for the later phases. About the only differences you have between WHM/D.AST is with Cure III/DS uptime, but you have Disable/Helios/Synastry which i'd argue is just as good. Heck if you get lucky with an AoE Bole it's good here too, it's not needed just like Mantra isn't. But having free mitigation as a main healer always turns me on.

But yes, you don't really need shields that much unlike Thordan Ex when that was new to pad up and carry mistakes. Off-healer here is more for DPS uptime, patchwork, and virus mitigation. WHM/N.AST combo is obviously much better than WHM/WHM but I think we can agree it is another fight where SCH has too much upside. Fairy and Bane use is hard to ignore.

Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

AST has nothing like you described above. Lightspeed is nothing like Assize or Indom as anything cast whilst it is active is still triggering the GCD and costs mana. Indom also requires the use of aetherflow to regain stacks, that gives you mana.....Indom can also be used theee time for every Assize. These are all great benefits which also need to be acknowledged.

Indom 3x for every Assize. True, but we all know what doesn't happen between that. In practicality the statement is a bit of a stretch considering we are talking about a White Mage.

To not acknowledge that AST doesn't have a method for just an instant AoE or to bring a party from the bowels of death to top-levels is a bit wrong considering Aetherflow is required to use Indom which also has a cooldown, and is a resource in which is also restores MP. I said near-instant, you have to acknowledge the lowest cost of MP for AST skills among the healers, along with the pretty steep 25% nerf. Granted because of Lightspeed's longer cooldown and GCD you can't always use it in the same way that you would with Assize/Indom. But there are situations where you can.

Regardless, all three healers have a method to get blow an AoE on-demand, but each one suits their job kit because of the skills they have. Scholar is cooldown limited in raw AoE healing because of being a mitigation healer. It'd be too powerful if it didn't require Aetherflow, and that is already the most powerful MP restoration method in the game.

Originally Posted by technole

Indom 3x for every Assize. True, but we all know what doesn't happen between that. In practicality the statement is a bit of a stretch considering we are talking about a White Mage.

To not acknowledge that AST doesn't have a method for just an instant AoE or to bring a party from the bowels of death to top-levels is a bit wrong considering Aetherflow is required to use Indom which also has a cooldown, and is a resource in which is also restores MP. I said near-instant, you have to acknowledge the lowest cost of MP for AST skills among the healers, along with the pretty steep 25% nerf. Granted because of Lightspeed's longer cooldown and GCD you can't always use it in the same way that you would with Assize/Indom. But there are situations where you can.

Regardless, all three healers have a method to get blow an AoE on-demand, but each one suits their job kit because of the skills they have. Scholar is cooldown limited in raw AoE healing because of being a mitigation healer. It'd be too powerful if it didn't require Aetherflow, and that is already the most powerful MP restoration method in the game.

I can kind of see where you are coming from but its not quite the same. AST has Swiftcast/Lightspeed Helios, and that's all it has. It can not boost it aoe healing capability like a WHM or SCH can with oGCD. A WHM can still swiftcast a medica and use assize directly after. A SCH can use emergency Succor then use indom after (or even plain succor, as it still more aoe healing output a AST can do with a single GCD when used alongside indom).

To compare "near instant aoe" is a misnomer, since all you are doing is comparing each healers aoe healing spell that has been used under swiftcast.

Originally Posted by Reinha

Using an oGCD (Lightspeed) to make every AoE heal to land 2.5 seconds earlier is a boost though. It increases healing rate in the moment it matters, even if the AST has to pay for it later by not landing any GCD heals for 5 seconds. If a WHM or a SCH uses swiftcast they only gain that burst for one heal, then they have to wait for the global cooldown + cast time of the next heal. AST can keep throwing instant heals until danger is over, essentially gaining one extra heal on top of the usual rate of heals. At the same time they are saving some MP. While Lightspeed may look like a Swiftcast, it's effect lasts longer and that's where the cooldown's strength lies.

Here's a demonstration of what I mean (and my amazing Paint skills ) using some example spells:



The red part is where SCH could use Succor over and over but I think most agree that Succor spam is not very efficient. The yellow part is on the left side for clarity but healers would likely start pre-casting the first heals so they land right after damage has been taken. For SCH Deployment would be used before the hit and the rest right after. For AST you could replace the A. Helios with CU if it's up, and then cast A. Helios in place of the first Helios.

EDIT: Changed pic a bit because I play SCH so rarely I forgot a few spells

I appreciate the depth you have gone in your response.

However, it still is not the same type of boost you get from swiftcast>medica/emergency succor + assize/indom, for the sole reason AST has nothing like assize/indom, so its physically impossible for AST to get that same burst aoe healing in one GCD that WHM and SCH can do. Lightspeed is an amazing cooldown, but its not the equivalent of assize/indom for an AST, soley because on how it interacts with the GCD.

You are correct in saying that AST can use lightspeed for a different style "burst" healing (i would be more inclined to call it spam healing rather than burst, as it doesnt compress the healing output over a shorter time like using an oGCD heal would do alongside a GCD one - and before anyone tries to argue against this, you usually get 4-5 abilities out under lightspeed, but then have to deal with triggered GCD>cast time> spell going off at the end, it frontloads the healing under lightspeed, but then once lightspeed ends, you are left with a period nearly equal to 2GCD's until your next spell goes off), but it still has a healing output during this time that is entirely GCD dependent, and becuase of its GCD dependency, the average healing done by the AST over this period doesnt change with or without lightspeed. On a technical level it changes when the heals land, which is perhaps more important to be talking about. But if we were to compare say 6GCDs of AST healing using Helios to 6GCDs of WHM using medica and then one use of assize during this, then the WHM has a higher healing throughput. Thats the kind if healing boost i am talking about .