3.3 Patch Notes(Pre)

**Cetonis** · 06-03-2016 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

They buffed all of BRD's skillset besides SS HS RS & IJ....what were you expecting? Heavy shot potency increased to 200?

I was expecting them to -not- increase DoT damage. This isn't crying that they didn't buff enough - this is saying that they buffed the wrong things. The total pps gain here is about 6.66. A little over 4 of that comes from DoT damage increases which were not needed.

They could have, for instance, added potency to the initial hit damage of Windbite and Venomous Bite. They could have consolidated Flaming Arrow's damage into 15s or 24s to make it lose less to boss movement. They could have, perhaps, done something a bit wacky like have Sidewinder apply any missing DoTs that it doesn't get damage for. None of these things would have increased Bard's dummy damage by any notable margin, but they would have had real impacts on output in actual combat.

But instead of aiming their buffs at areas of need, SE does this wholesale buff-everything approach, which creates more potential problems down the road (threat to MCH viability) than it actually solves (BRD still badly lacks resilience to mechanics). It's a very lazy, "here, now stop whining and go away" buff that reflects a complete failure to understand the nuances of the classes involved.

**RLofOBFL** · 06-03-2016 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Cetonis

I was expecting them to -not- increase DoT damage. This isn't crying that they didn't buff enough - this is saying that they buffed the wrong things. The total pps gain here is about 6.66. A little over 4 of that comes from DoT damage increases which were not needed.

Sorry if I sound dumb but what is wrong with Dots on BRD?

**FeliAiko** · 06-03-2016 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

Sorry if I sound dumb but what is wrong with Dots on BRD?

It's because BRDs issue in this raid tier was burst, and not sustained damage.

**Warlyx** · 06-03-2016 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by FeliAiko

It's because BRDs issue in this raid tier was burst, and not sustained damage.

and because some encounters force boss to jump out of the arena and after coming has no dots u have to refresh dots again and again , A7 being the worst.... too many jumps from the boss , to many movement , and u have to burst down adds that arent worth doting up .....

at least 180 BV cd will save lots of "wait time" , and being able to use it more often , but Brd uses MP for both MP/TP regen and Foe .... MCH uses MP only for TP/MP regen...they dont waste MP on -10%

this buffs are welcomed , i would prefered a way to use the dots to gain advantage , sidewinder remove dots and does XXX potency (40s cd ) so if i see the boss leaving i can use sidewinder to remove this dots and get a dmg spike , or let sidewinder put dots on target.....or let both dots be instant cast...remove Iron jaws and give us a usefull skill...but thats expansion changes....

we need this dots in order to proc bloodletter....being unable to puts dots (not worth ) is a pain

**Cetonis** · 06-04-2016 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

Sorry if I sound dumb but what is wrong with Dots on BRD?

Bard's problems in current content stem from how weak they are when they can't keep their DoTs running on any targets. Each time they have to either apply their DoTs anew, or forgo them entirely in the case of an add that isn't going to last very long, they lose out on hundreds of potency. Additionally, Flaming Arrow gets undermined by mechanics that cause the boss to be moved around.

Making the DoT/FA ticks stronger doesn't really change any of this - in fact, it makes the gap in DPS between a Bard-friendly fight and a Bard-punishing fight even wider. While raising the ceiling damage by 5% or so will of course raise the floor damage by a few percent as well, the goal should have been to raise the floor by 6-8% while ideally only adding maybe 1-3% to the ceiling.

And if SE actually took the time to understand how 3.0 Bard works, there were at least a few relatively obvious ways to make strides towards that goal, and a lot of room for creative solutions as well. Chief among the options would have been a duration compression on Flaming Arrow, better initial-hit damage on Windbite / Venomous Bite, significant oGCD attack buffs, an extension of Straight Shot's duration, addressing the WM vs. River anti-synergy, some way to get consolation damage when DoTs are down, or a couple other things.

But the Blunt Arrow change is the only thing on that list that they actually did - other than that it's a bunch of fairly thoughtless "we don't know what to do so let's just add a little bit to everything" buff. (Granted the song changes make a lot of sense, but that's sort of a separate category that doesn't take much of any class-specific knowledge to grasp)

If A9-12 roughly resemble A3, A4, A5, and A8 in style (as in, if A1-2 and A6-7 are true outliers), then the final numerical result of all this could actually be okay. Bard will be a little better in a fight or two, Machinist a little better in a fight or two, and they'd be even-ish in a fight or two.

But now the onus is on SE to actually produce those suitable fight designs - while also not botching BLM vs. SMN - when they could have had more freedom if they targeted Bard's weaknesses for buffs rather than just making their strengths even better.

**RLofOBFL** · 06-04-2016 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Cetonis

Bard's problems in current content stem from how weak they are when they can't keep their DoTs running on any targets. Each time they have to either apply their DoTs anew, or forgo them entirely in the case of an add that isn't going to last very long, they lose out on hundreds of potency.

So what would've solved this exactly? Slight potency increases on Heavy/Straight/Emp? Or something like a flat out let's say 50 potency boost to Emp so it can not only make BRD opener much stronger but take down adds quicker. Sidewinder applying dots is not a bad idea....

**Cetonis** · 06-04-2016 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

So what would've solved this exactly? Slight potency increases on Heavy/Straight/Emp? Or something like a flat out let's say 50 potency boost to Emp so it can not only make BRD opener much stronger but take down adds quicker. Sidewinder applying dots is not a bad idea....

Edited in a few things above, but the most plainly obvious thing to do would be to make WB and VB do 20-40p more on their initial applications. Nothing of substance would change in terms of sustained output, but damage on short-lived targets would be a solid notch better.

The second most obvious move would be to do virtually-anything to make FA less awful when the boss is going to be on the move. That could be making it do more per tick for a shorter duration, or making it act like Collective Unconscious maybe, or some other solution.

In both cases, SE just added potency to the DoT ticks, which does nothing when those ticks don't happen but (unnecessarily) a lot when they do.

**Judge_Xero** · 06-03-2016 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Cetonis

I was expecting them to -not- increase DoT damage. This isn't crying that they didn't buff enough - this is saying that they buffed the wrong things. The total pps gain here is about 6.66. A little over 4 of that comes from DoT damage increases which were not needed.

The BRD buffs look pretty solid IMO. A higher sustained damage allows for saving of CD's in the need of burst/dealing with mechanics. Blunt Arrow having double potency is a significant increase.

DOTs Changes -> higher AOE potential without altering burst AOE too much, higher sustained @ a 3.33 pps increase.
Blunt -> Burst Potential + Higher Sustained
EA -> Significant Burst Paired with Barrage + Higher Sustained
Flaming Arrow -> Significant AOE increase
Sidewinder.....an increase that doesn't change anything significant lol.

If you look at the single target pps of 6.667 combined from all the changes you will notice that the changes to the DOTs is exactly half @ 3.33 pps. The target here I believe was having the ability to hold burst CD's if required, which it appears to have done.

For the most part, BRD now has a ~100 DPS increase @ current gear + changes to BV and songs.

Thread: 3.3 Patch Notes(Pre)

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