Powerleveling Revisited

[Fieros]

People want to be able to help their friends , as mentioned earlier, especially on PS3 launch.

Help their friends do what exactly? Do you propose that we be able to powerlevel their DoH classes so they can craft endgame items without having to spend time grinding?

[Lavani]

Help their friends do what exactly? Do you propose that we be able to powerlevel their DoH classes so they can craft endgame items without having to spend time grinding?

Ill sign that petition. I don't give a rats a$$ about mid level tiers end game is the meat of every MMO.

[Reokudo]

I agree with Lavani where he said endgame is the meat of the MMO. Although leveling shouldn't be that easy. But endgame is usually what people look forwards to. Leveling a new job to 50 on the same mobs over and over will bore you out.

[Vanguard319]

Um, I'm really not sure how valid this thread is anymore. For those of us that have played the game after 1.19a, you will notice that people who are 10+ levels below the highest level in the party get ZERO experience points from the mob. I only noticed this when someone switched to a level 50 char during a stronghold party and I suddenly stopped gaining xp (I was 39). In addition, the only method left for powerleveling is similar to the ffxi version, though definitely easier. Higher level players can help a party out by healing or doing damage after a mob has been claimed (not just linked, claimed) so this really isn't as much of an issue as before. The other deal is that yes, equipment up to r20 is sold by vendors, and since upper level gear is nerfed on lower level characters, players will appropriate rank gear below 20, R20 till R30, and then usually dungeon gear after that(since they are easier to get now), or the company gear (which is 25+).
Thus
Powerleveling (harder to do, definently no way for people to simply sit and gain xp, not possible anymore.)
Gear Demand
1-20: Gear from vendor (levels go too quick to continually change gear).
20-30: R20 gear from vendor (equipment still doesn't matter all that much).
25+ or 30+ :unique equipment (better than any equipment until about R45)
40+ : buy gear

Thus the only gear in demand is 40+, all gear below that was used up by people buying gear to turn into materia.

Actually, there is a way around this: If the PL leaves the party, then the mob is still considered claimed by the party, the PL can then kill the mob, and the party will get the XP, PL rejoins the party, wash, rinse, repeat. You still get high xp, though not at high a rate than you used to due to the constant joining/leaving.

[Andrien]

@OP
i think you have to factor in the possibility that your server might have a large amount of high lvls or not very populated.

[Teia]

I understand that you're taking a neutral stance, but if it's considered inflexible to want to work for my level up... Well, if it were true, I will have lost faith in the MMO player community.

In the end, that comes down to the type of game you want to play. There are games where reaching the level cap is a Herculean feat, and a single level in the upper parts of the curve take days or even weeks. On the other side of it, there are games where reaching the level cap is more or less trivial. If FF14 decides to go the latter route, then that's fine, and I can even understand why someone who liked the slower pace would feel angry or betrayed or some other kind of negativity at Yoshi's new direction, but I have to wonder if we wouldn't be seeing exactly this same kind of thread, just in the opposite direction, if Yoshi went the other way. Ultimately the game's in a kind of transitional period where we don't know what the final product will be, so I think putting as much heavy emphasis on a single aspect of the game as some people seem to be doing is erring on the inflexible side considering there are a lot of adjustments that still need to be made—there's no sense complaining until we know what the final product will be.

tl;dr I'm one of those "you can't please everyone and shouldn't try" people.

[Issac]

In the end, that comes down to the type of game you want to play. There are games where reaching the level cap is a Herculean feat, and a single level in the upper parts of the curve take days or even weeks. On the other side of it, there are games where reaching the level cap is more or less trivial. If FF14 decides to go the latter route, then that's fine, and I can even understand why someone who liked the slower pace would feel angry or betrayed or some other kind of negativity at Yoshi's new direction, but I have to wonder if we wouldn't be seeing exactly this same kind of thread, just in the opposite direction, if Yoshi went the other way. Ultimately the game's in a kind of transitional period where we don't know what the final product will be, so I think putting as much heavy emphasis on a single aspect of the game as some people seem to be doing is erring on the inflexible side considering there are a lot of adjustments that still need to be made—there's no sense complaining until we know what the final product will be.

tl;dr I'm one of those "you can't please everyone and shouldn't try" people.

This point would be valid if the devs weren't listening to player feedback. Unlike FFXI, XIV is partially malleable by the player community.

If this trend continues, and if the general majority wants it to stay, then I might just have to leave. Each day it gets worse, unfortunately.

I remember when I started the first powerlevel thread, and all these herps on the forums were treating me like I pissed and moaned about everything I don't like, ever. To tell the truth, my post count was 25 before 1.19. All my other posts before then were in defense of the game. I love everything about it, even since launch.

EXP has evolved rather sporadically.
Random gains -> Static gains -> Focus on leves -> Ridiculous PLVL -> Slightly less ridiculous PLVL

I didn't mind the random gains, but it was bitched out of the game before anyone put forth any effort into mastering it. I won't argue that it was frustrating and tedious, but whatever.

The static gains were alright, but I will agree that it felt like a generic mindless grind. But to be honest, that's only because there weren't enough goals to achieve. The only motivations to get that level up was some new gear (Just barely, considering that optimal level BS) and hitting cap. The only real motive that stood out was reaching cap, thus all the bitching about it.

Things got a bit faster once the focus turned to leve-linking. Soon there were a handful of leves that players would do over and over. That got old quick, and people started complaining about that being repetitive.

Considering that content takes time to make, I understand why SE imp'd a quick fix like powerlevling. However, the means in which they implemented it and how effective it is... I am vehemently against it. It enables lazy habits. The kind of player it breeds isn't only about skill and ability to play their class. It also breeds unwarranted elitism. The only thing worse than hardcore elitism is casual elitism. Granted, they're both bad, but the latter annoys me more than the prior.

Again, my opinions might be offensive. And I am sorry if they are. I'm not hardcore nor casual, I'm in the middle. I play the game to progress and enjoy the journey in-between. I don't want to take turns being the level 50 to kill everything for the mostly-afk group playing dark souls or somesuch between turns. Not saying that's how everyone does it, just an example.

After all is said and done I have one sincere hope. Sometime next year after they have implemented more progression content, such as goals to strive for, that they will remove this extreme form of enabling powerleveling. I really, really hope all this is a short-term bandaid.

[Teakwood]

OP has clearly never actually been in a PL'd party; the people being PL'd still need to be able to pull and hold the mobs until the PL kills them.

Statement about the demand/supply of low-level gear being completely haywire is valid, but then again, I think we hear enough people saying "there should be more low level gear!!" that this is ~actually a supply problem~, not a demand problem.

The only people who have crafts leveled at all are people who took a craft or multiple crafts to 50 ages ago, and they're not interested in making gear many levels below their own skill and/or they don't see the money in it. A friend of mine has made a surprising amount of money leveling a few crafts to the 20-30 range and making and selling low-level gear; it's a seller's market on Palamecia server, so I don't think you can actually pin this one on PLing.

I'd be curious as to actual statistical data about how much XP is obtained through PL vs. how much is obtained through normal partying, because I have a feeling it's a lot less than the moralisers are saying. I know for a fact it's been easy for me to XP without a PL, though. The game's community leaves much to be desired, I know, but try shouting in Ul'dah for a non-PL low level party, see if anyone's interested? Even a Light Party can get pretty excellent XP depending on camps.

Edit: I hope it's a short term bandaid, too! That said, my experience seems to have been much different than yours.

[Teia]

If this trend continues, and if the general majority wants it to stay, then I might just have to leave. Each day it gets worse, unfortunately.

The problem comes when people take "vocal minority" for "general majority." To be honest, I'm not sure just what the actual demographics are, but I certainly hope SE goes with something more concrete than a general impression from reading the forum.

[Mirh]

Yes I agree that you don't "skip" a story if that's what you're after.(...) The game will succeed when more people are playing the game, not just the devoted few.

I've exhausted a lot of energy over the last few days on posts so I'm kind of in a mellow enough state to not do my normal, so you'll have to forgive me for a lack of worthy response:

You make several good points here, although I weigh this to be really to some level a glass half full / glass half empty situation. I did forget that a lot of people in WoW left due to how easy the game was, myself included once I progressed enough to see. The issue here is that WoW still boasted an incredibly large player base that was genuinely happy - the core of WoW, being quite happy just having casual fun. Blizzard did not have to worry about losing the hardcore fanbase because it would always have millions of players and intense income. They did this because they are (*blush*) an incredibly good company. (Although of course it brings in a few more $$million.)

SE does have to do whatever it can to keep their ridiculously pricy project of an MMO from sinking due to how catastrophic it all has been to them as a company - it's true. I think it'll all come down to what Yoshida is really about. If the development team really has that "Japanese passion" for FFXIV they did for FFXI, they'll want to bring incredible amounts of life into the world, and even if Yoshida is just wanting to make the game attractive for item hunter types, he won't be able to directly stop that.

Make no mistake though. I'm aware how insignificant anyone who wants a slower/more fulfilling MMO really is these days. If it were the other way around, I doubt you guys wanting a quick experience would lay down and take it.

If we don't really clamor for "something" about this SE won't have any incentive period. If you ever listen to Yoshida or read the interviews he seems surprised every time someone mentions something that isn't directly what he thinks will work because it works in WoW. More or less. And I'm under the impression S-E reads these forums. maybe a 12 page+ thread means something, even if it's full of "NO!" lol

Also, anything tough in WOW was strictly at endgame once Blizzard tweaked things. I'm sorry, that's really not fun. Pllllllease try to remember the leveling experience, while not fun to you, used to be fun for people, and the hours/days/months it takes people used to be considered part of a game, rather than an ancient method that wastes your time.