Wanderer's Minuet Help

[Tango185]

But why would you recommend to a player who wants to improve and is asking for help with using WM to forgo using entirely on entire encounters?"

I never said that. OP was already told by some to have it on ALL the time. Since they're new using it I felt the need to explain that there are instances where it may hurt. Yes, I should have included that it's a developmental issue and will be fixed with practice. But I wasn't wrong in what I said. Every class and skill has a learning curve and not everybody picks things up at the same speed.

For me, this is my first MMORPG. I main BRD and I learned quickly everything I needed to but I also learned it all in ARR where I was able to move around without issue. I'm not used to standing still so WM messed me up. I AM still learning to use and get used to WM.

[ChameleonMS]

My question is how and when should I be using WM? I'm reading a lot of conflicting information. Some people say all the time, some people say use for AOE only otherwise its not worth it- and most of the guides I am finding are over a year old, I have no idea what has since changed.

What has changed in the last year is they fixed WM by significantly reducing the cast time from when it first came out.
Additionally, IMO, do not bother with WM until you get Iron Jaws at 56. From 56 onward, WM is definitely worth it.

[Shurrikhan]

Wanderer's Minuet should be up most of the time at level 60, however that is not because it is the best option for each GCD — it is simply because there is enough to be gained over the time you're locked into it for 15 seconds to make up for the lost auto-attacks over that duration. This will of course vary with interrupts that may occur due to necessary movement or damage taken. As such, it should not be applied with 15 seconds of any phase in which you are uncomfortable with or unable to sufficiently stutter-step, or have too few mobile GCD options (Straighter Shot and Feint, the latter a dps loss compared to dropping WM if no oGCDs are usable during that time), such as Sephirot Ex's blue pillar phase.

Even at level 60 it is a (temporary) DPS loss if you have no attacks available over the GCD (including oGCD abilities and the weaponskills both) that would gain at least 83 potency from the 30% damage bonus, essentially the amount of average AA damage lost during that time due to WM.

Actual AA damage will be a bit more complicated, as it occurs periodically rather than as a stream, of course, which means maximizing proximity to its particular nodes (such that you typically want to swap back into WM just after an AA). Your first AA should go off within a half second of entering combat or being able again to auto-attack (so, upon dropping WM), and then you will have another AA weapon speed interval before the next 33.3*seconds-delay potency hits. If you switch back to WM just before that second shot would go off, it is wasted. As such, keeping your weapon speed in mind can be beneficial in stance-dancing. Try to figure out how many GCDs + half-GCDs (oGCD animations, if you can double-weave) that would be.

So, over a particular GCD (the simplest way to look at it)
Windbite: 330 --> 429. 99 bonus. Worth it.
Venomous Bite: 310 --> 403. 93 bonus. Worth it.
Heavy Shot: 150 potency --> 195 with WM. 45 bonus. Not worth.

However, these need to be considered in terms of the damage that can be dealt over the GCD (or, better yet, over time). That means factoring in oGCDs as well:
Heavy Shot + Repelling Shot: 230 --> 299. 69 bonus. Almost worth.
Heavy Shot + Sidewinder: 450 --> 585. 135 bonus. Obviously worth.
Feint + Sidewinder: 420 --> 546. 126 bonus. Obviously worth.

Any time you're not using an oGCD during WM, you're essentially wasting 30% of its cooldown as far as damage over time goes.

As with everything, there may be situations in which it's worth it to do so. For instance, an 3.1-second auto attack at 103 potency could be worth more to try to fit within your CD window than a given Blunt Arrow. You might instead drop WM for a half-GCD (last shot was casted) only to fire the AA once and turn it back on, or because you only have HS and SS shots coming up and Bloodletter's being totally elusive, you might even pop Blunt Arrow while outside of WM, losing the 9s worth of its damage in favor of getting in more AAs until IJ or EA are ready to be used again, because there would be at least a few GCDs (almost the lost duration) before you'd be back in WM unless Bloodletter pops (the WM bonus of which is equal to an AA with Straight Shot, slightly better with Heavy Shot, and much better with any stronger weaponskill at the ready). Consider your chances on River of Blood (refreshed BL / RoD) procs, but be decisive rather than hesitant, especially if you're playing to your CDs.

The real bonuses to WM though are the unique abilities, Empyreal Arrow and Iron Jaws. Whereas you want WM up for every Sidewinder, Flaming Arrow, Bloodletter, Rain of Death, Wide Volley/Quick Nock on more than 2 enemies, or pretty much any AoE or oGCD, you can't even use your two best weaponskills without WM.

Empyreal Arrow does 240 potency (312 in non-WM terms), but does it over a half-GCD, or if following a Straighter Shot or Feint (which have no cast time in WM) as an oGCD. (I'll let others cover how worth it it is to hold off on using EA in order to use it as a oGCD instead of a half-GCD. Just know that it's strong.)

Iron Jaws does 100 instant potency, same as Venomous Bite, but refreshes BOTH Windbite and Venomous Bite at once for a total of 580 potency (754 in non-WM terms), while freeing up an additional GCD, making a difference of yet another 50 or 90 potency by allowing a Heavy Shot in place of a Venomous Bite or Windbite refresh. It is in many ways the strongest weaponskill in the game.

WM must be up in time to refresh DoTs with Iron Jaws. Any exceptions to this rule are nearly inexistant and would require an earlier mistake. In some cases, you will even waste the extra Heavy Shot opportunity to refresh your DoTs regardless of their remaining duration to double-dip into your CDs (refreshing just after popping Raging Strikes, etc., and then again just before the CDs, and the DoTs, would fall off). And, of course you want to be hitting each EA as quickly as possible. As such, most WM weaves, if stance-dancing, will begin and end with an EA and/or IJ.


....
Long, but I hope that'll be informative for you.

[nexas506]

I actually did a macro for iron jaws.
/macroicon "iron jaws"
/ac "iron jaws"
<wait.14>
/e DOTS <se.7>

This way I hear a little ping (that only i can hear) at just the right time when it's time to use iron just again to refresh my bites.
It works for me because I don't have to pay as much attention to the timers.

[Tango185]

I actually did a macro for iron jaws.
/macroicon "iron jaws"
/ac "iron jaws"
<wait.14>
/e DOTS <se.7>

This way I hear a little ping (that only i can hear) at just the right time when it's time to use iron just again to refresh my bites.
It works for me because I don't have to pay as much attention to the timers.

That's actually pretty brilliant. I'm stealing this. Thanks!

[Snugglebutt]

If the encounter is an easy one with a large amount of movement required I will keep it off until there are large enough periods to be sure having it on wont become annoying to me. In those fights if someone whines about my not performing to the best of my ability, stressing myself out on what is essentially easy/casual content just because they want to shave thirty seconds, a minute, five minutes or ten minutes off the clear time then they can get stuffed. I am there for the clear and not for a speed run just because they lack patience and as long as it is not top tier content with extreme difficulty then I will go at an adequate speed but not stress myself out working my ass off just to shave a few minutes off the run.

If the fight is more difficult though it becomes more important to have it on as much as possible, more effort is required and so I do personally make sure to put forth such effort. I'm fine with WM on BRD, I prefer GB on MCH though (I only play BRD, MCH and MNK for DoW/DoM). My only complaint about MCH is mostly the annoying procs on main combo (slug, split and clean) instead of it being more stable and more reliable like MNK main combo, reload should be 'special ammo' and buff/debuff related like a manually turned on GL3 with GCD rather than proc related for example in my opinion. SE could adjust the potency's if such a change to the MCH main combo made it OP and I would be okay with them doing so as I would rather have more stability than being overly powerful.

On a side note I don't play BLM but I imagine enochian is similar to MCH wildfire burst which includes GB, in that with it you want to remain stationary as possible in order to push through as much of the skill rotation as can before wildfire ends. On BRD I don't feel like the same is required because their burst rotation is not such a big aspect of the class compared to wildfire and enochian, one of BRD's big aspects instead is the larger amount of DoT's rather than burst alone though they do have decent burst it doesn't feel the same as MCH or what I think BLM is like. I 'feel' like I still have more movement freedom on BRD even with WM than on my MCH in general but not by a huge amount, I imagine BLM is on par with MCH but much slightly worse than BRD movement wise if I was to guess.

[Slyqc]

You don't really need to activate your Wanderers minuet before lvl 56, you can use it for your opener, barrage empyreal arrow is pretty damn strong but it's both Iron Jaw and Empyreal Arrow that will make it that you just can't have it turned off.
But in the end, lvl 50-56 the DPS difference will not be too important, so like said previously you can start using it at lvl 54 (it's useless to use it before lvl 54) to start training to add empyreal arrow to your rotation.
Also if you're planning on mastering your bard you will need to level up your Dragoon to level 34, this way you will have Feint and Blood for Blood, both of these skills are a must for bards. Feint will give you the ability to keep doing some damage even while moving and casting GCD's. Blood for blood on the other hand will give you a 10% damage buff. (I don't really recommend it for PvP though as you will be taking 25% more damage.)

[Mephistobr]

Just a quick rant, I got to lvl 53 yesterday and just discovered Wanderer's Minuet, and now I feel like I've wasted 1 month of my life playing this game.

[Shurrikhan]

Just a quick rant, I got to lvl 53 yesterday and just discovered Wanderer's Minuet, and now I feel like I've wasted 1 month of my life playing this game.

You're in luck. There is no reason to use it until 54 (Empyreal) outside of AoE spams.

It then remains marginal at best until getting Iron Jaws.

[Mephistobr]

Still it's really sad, I even played a lot the free trial and decided to buy it because the archer class was everything I was looking for on an MMO and now I'm a caster, don't even feel like logging in right now. To make things worse I just bought the expansion 2 days ago on Steam and can't even refund.