Support Classes/Jobs (Looking at BRD)

[Wolfie]

This is why I partly liked WOW's approach to class balance. Buffs were homogenized across classes so that you only needed 4-5 different classes in a group to get all the important raid buffs and debuffs.

Having just one class with a powerful, game-changing buff or skill is poor design.

[Quisi]

Generaly I'm against forcing people to take specific jobs to do content but we have healers, tanks in this game so I guess one more person to look for during party creation doesn't make a difference.

[Betelgeuzah]

Now will BRDs buffs be SO good, that all end game enemies Require BRD? So one of us has to play something they don't enjoy?

Obviously not, but if you only play whatever you want the community will not be as eager to let you participate.

It is very common that tanks are the most wanted of the archetypes, while dps are less so. You can get by, but it will be harder to prove yourself.

As far as ARC turning BRD goes, the ranged DPS concept doesn't work and needs to be changed. Those it affects simply need to deal with it one way or the other. The game balance it at stake.

Having just one class with a powerful, game-changing buff or skill is poor design.

One class or 5 classes, there won't be any more of those who prefer playing the archetype. At best, it comes down to preferences. "Do I want to look like a Ninja while I tank or a Paladin?" Diversity can be a refreshing thing but it's by no means a requirement. The game could get by with 3 classes for each archetype easily.

[Wolfie]

As far as ARC turning BRD goes, the ranged DPS concept doesn't work and needs to be changed. Those it affects simply need to deal with it one way or the other. The game balance it at stake.

Wait what? Ranged DPS doesn't work in MMOs?

[Betelgeuzah]

Wait what? Ranged DPS doesn't work in MMOs?

Not in this game.

You can have ranged DPS but it can't be the primary function behind the class. I don't think this is different in any MMO.

[Wolfie]

Not in this game.

You can have ranged DPS but it can't be the primary function behind the class. I don't think this is different in any MMO.

Tons of other MMOs pull it off just fine. It requires more balancing effort, of course, but it's been done.

[Betelgeuzah]

Tons of other MMOs pull it off just fine. It requires more balancing effort, of course, but it's been done.

I do like that you are specific. Makes it easy to agree.

[Atoli]

Thanks Claire, I think it's way more understandable in the shorter version

It's kinda like the whole ARC for Darkhold pre-1.19 and the LNC for Ifrit situation we have now. Sure, you don't need to do it that way but it's so much better than the other options we've come up with that most people will consider it a necessity.

And that's what I think is fine.
As long as it is basically POSSIBLE to do something without BRD, it's okay.
The moment content is no longer POSSIBLE without a certain class, that's when I see a problem with it.
Ifrit-Lancer example:
Many are lvling Lancer now just because Ifrit is easier with 5-6 Lancers, okay.
Looking at the forums, it seems like nobody is trying a different approach anymore.
But if you take a look at the parties ingame actually fighting Ifrit, most of the time people just play their favorite class they are comfortable with. Because that way Ifrit may take longer, it may be harder, but people are having fun by fighting him in their favorite class.

If BRD buffs are useful, BRD will be used.
It will make things easier, and it's basic human instinct to take the easy route.
So every exp party will soon have a BRD in it.
But as long as exp parties are still possible without Bards, some people who don't like the class will play without.
I'm all in for freedom of choice.

Now for endgame content..I think BRD should be needed. Because after all, other classes will be needed too.
It won't be possible without a tanking job and a White Mage, so why should it NOT require a BRD too?

[Wolfie]

You lost me. I'm not sure if we're agreeing right now or if you're making fun of me.

[Betelgeuzah]

I was being slightly sarcastic there; forgive me for that.

Any specific examples of successful primary ranged DPS mechanics?

I tought most mages in games are ranged dps characters. In like.. every mmo I played.

Yeah, there's usually a downside to that. Archer doesn't have such thing as mana costs or anything of the sort. Unless you run out of arrows.

The fact that you are not in the close range while you still deal comparable damage to those who are is what makes the situation unsustainable.