Anyone else get this feeling?

[zmandude24]

This game seems to have only dps roles in raids. The sign of a good tank and healer is high dps and not how well they mitigate damage or heal stuff as long as they keep people alive. Non dps roles are pretty much being a dps with the permanent assignment dealing with gimmicks. Focusing dps as a healer or tank is fine with me but can we please not make it the main focus in 4.0 for tanks and healers since atm you are a bad tank if you stay in tank stance the entire time when actively tanking the boss in a raid.

[CookieMonsta]

This is not as relevant for Midas anymore but yes you were correct as of Gordias

[PArcher]

How much raid tanking have you done in the current tier? As in, Savage Midas tanking.

[Iromi]

yup, this is why i stopped raiding.

[starLivitation]

not tried A7S or a8S yet but from what i can see so far, your statement is not true.
as a SCH traditionally we have needed to dps to push phases. A5 dps check is really just the dumy humifaust, the A5S is very relaxed dps check.
as for A6S, i can see heavy healing on 2nd boss can be a pain, and mitigation and planing is required.

[Luascadan]

While I don't exactly disagree with your opinion of wanting tanks to be tankier, it would require a complete overhaul of how raid bosses work.

How every raid encounter works right now: It's on a scripted timer with a hard hitting attack every X seconds. The bosses auto attacks outside of these scripted tank busters are pathetic.

So yes: You are a bad tank in the current meta if after you realize when these sequences come, you then still refuse to go to your offensive stance. You only hinder your team because you won't require much extra healing, if any extra healing at all, and the encounter will be prolonged which can make or break an enrage kill. (In many cases it's possible to eat the tank buster in your offensive stance with just heavy CD's.)


A possible way to shape future encounters would be to increase auto attack damage potency and frequency, similar to the bennus in low-gear level from T12.

I wouldn't mind getting absolutely destroyed from even basic autos.


Personally stance dancing is fun and so is mitigation. Good tanks & healers do both.

[Kitfox]

Do you know why DPS is the meta of the game? Because this game is about depleting boss hp bars. The faster you deplete it, the more efficient you are. Even if DPS checks aren't a wipe inducing thing, this very basic game mechanic remains, and DPS will remain the rate of 'efficiency.' When the needed level of survivablity is reached, everyone will choose 'fast' instead of 'slow' when given the choice, and it will be the metric of 'skill.'

There's only a few ways to steer away from the DPS meta: 1. either completely redesign combat skills to give defensive abilities an offensive aspect (eg. increase vulnerability stacks on boss whenever mitigating damage or healing) 2. redesign the battle system so that hp bars aren't the main thing and battles would instead be won through some special conditions, or 3. tanks and healers are simply unable to do, or focus on, damage at all.

Arguably, the easiest way to totally kill the dps meta would be taking away all DPS stances from healers and tanks, but then you would have to argue why taking a meaningful gameplay choice would be good for the game experience. In my opinion, you would have to replace that choice with something else, just taking a feature away would be loss of gameplay elements, making things more boring for the player.

[Warlyx]

what? thats far from true , healer have to know to time Cds to avoid wipes , and have mechanics aimed at them , same goes for tanks.

dps is important? yeah but i dont see how tanking or healing is "less" important , w/o good tanks u arent going anywhere , and withouth good heals good luck not dying to any raid wide aoe...

U need to kill the boss , but in order to do so u need to do some scripted mechanics 1 (that goes for tanks (adds , stacks , moving the boss ect) , healers (aoe dmg , mitigating big attacks... ) and dps (burst phase , adds to kill ) or all the raid that needs to dance around to avoid mechanics )

Some tanks healers prefere to only tank or heal , others dont mind dpsing in some phases.... to be fair dpsing for a bit spice it the encounters

[Reiryuu]

snip

There are other ways. For instance, you can make certain other skills do things and actually make them relevant in combat. Increase the base speed and damage of boss attacks and allow the DPS jobs to have paralyzes, slows, blinds, etc that actually... you know... WORK on the boss to mitigate that increase from the base. Give Aero, Aero II and Aero III a defense down ability and... maybe Bio and Bio II a magic defense down ability and allow Combust to go either way depending on the sect the Astro is in.

Allow there to be ways to extend the boss enrage timer (I would say these are the primary culprit for the need for high DPS). Give bosses mechanics that drain MP, TP etc from players to make the fight harder instead of just hitting harder. Give the boss silence mechanics, Don't Act mechanics, etc. Give us dispels (well MNK has one I'm sure but I don't know if others do) to get rid of boss buffs. Give the bosses defense/mdefense down debuffs to give the tanks, that healers would have to cure.

In other words... make the fights more complex. The new raid finder kind of sets the jobs up for this. If SE thinks "Hey, you should have 2 tanks (different jobs) 2 healers (different jobs) 1 melee dps 1 ranged physical dps and 1 ranged magical dps and 1
"other" DPS, then they can distribute these abilities across the jobs so that between these categories all the jobs have the ability to do what the other one(s) have so that no one job is required, rather 2 different jobs of the same role will be enough. As iLVLs increase and the content becomes dated it'll be easier to do the fights without these new abilities etc, so random DF parties, etc shouldn't have trouble.

Give us something besides damage to focus on.

[Warlyx]

Reiryuuu all that exists already

Smn/sch has Virus (lowers dmg done ) ,rez in combat , Blind , MCH does have -5% dmg, Mnk mantra to help on healing ...Dragon kick for -int debuff , brd can dispel , and all melees and MCH have stun , BRD and NIN have silence that is needed in some encounters...NIN and MCH have +10% dmg done, ect

there is a line that must not be crossed or u are going to have a seizure trying to balance the jobs...if we arent there already.

there are boss that have "dont act" mechanics , Bouquet in Coil , fire cage in Midas , some bosses have aoes that drain TP if u fail at it.

since we can only have 2 tanks 2 healers and 4 dps , u cant give paralyze to BLM and Blind to MNK ... Paralyze is waaaay better ....and for sure mandatory in raids.

SE doesnt want "mandatory" jobs...albeit some are almost mandatory (War for example)