Token exchange for the Primal Birds

[Derio]

I am just waiting for the drop rate to increase. The drop rate is way too low and then on top of that rolling against 7 other people for it.

Only 99 runs? Like thats a low number

[Jetstream_Fox]

snip

So if you go to work for 40 hours or whatever are you not entitled to a paycheck? If you're putting in the work to run the content you should be able to obtain the reward regardless, that's the whole point of running it. You can't say "oh if they gave people tokens for it they'd get that number and quit running" so what about a player running first time and getting the drop, and that player never ques again? And no RNG doesn't guarantee anyone will continue to do content, many people in this post have stated they won't do it because of the low RNG. Adding tokens don't diminish anything so I don't know where you get that from, the weapons already require tokens and people still seek them out for glamour purposes. If a higher RNG would weaken old trials then why are old trials still popping up for pony and weapon farms?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So if you go to work for 40 hours or whatever are you not entitled to a paycheck? If you're putting in the work to run the content you should be able to obtain the reward regardless, that's the whole point of running it. You can't say "oh if they gave people tokens for it they'd get that number and quit running" so what about a player running first time and getting the drop, and that player never ques again? And no RNG doesn't guarantee anyone will continue to do content, many people in this post have stated they won't do it because of the low RNG. Adding tokens don't diminish anything so I don't know where you get that from, the weapons already require tokens and people still seek them out for glamour purposes. If a higher RNG would weaken old trials then why are old trials still popping up for pony and weapon farms?

Work =/= Bonus reward

You do. The reward is better gear. Primal pigeons exist solely for incentive to repeatedly running that content beyond its relevance so new players won't experience long queue times. Unlike that potential gear upgrade, you don't need this vanity item. It's the equivalent of a lottery ticket or gambling Vegas. You aren't entitled to win just because you paid money.

What of it? For every lucky player who got a pigeon early another is still queuing up Thordan EX for the umpteenth time. People posting on a forum not even three pages doesn't equate to the fanbase a large. In fact, forum posts in general make up a very small fragment of any fanbase. Regardless, queue for Heavensward primal continue to be fairly quick while ARR primals seem to queue only at certain times now. And they pop because of RNG. Those players don't have their ponies and have no means of getting them buy farming Titan or Garuda however many times it takes. I don't have any, which means unless I find a group, I'll be using the DF until I do.

If you aren't willing to chance these low odds, well, you can simply wait until 3.55 or thereabouts when they up rates in the wake of a new expansion launching. So there's your nerf.

[Ekimmak]

Honestly, I'm leaning towards some sort of guarantee to it, simply because farms always seem to fall apart after the first three runs that don't drop anything.

I have better things to do than sit around waiting for people to check party finder and decide "Yeah, I'll run that".

[Cidel]

Primal pigeons exist solely for incentive repeatedly running that content beyond its relevance so new players won't experience long queue times.

Ok, this train of logic needs to stop.

Realistically, people "farm" these mounts in farm parties. That means most people run it in PF parties that value speed of killing the primal over carrying new players and waiting in a queue for a party that might not even be able to kill the primal in the first place. The way people go about trying to get these mounts mostly doesn't even support "clearing it for new players" when most Party Finder mount farm parties only want experienced people who can kill it in their sleep. Yes, there's players out there who, through some act of RNGesus, managed to score the mount in there, but players who acquire the mount that way are most likely a tiny minority (and incredibly lucky).

If the devs are concerned about DF queue times for players needing these primals and are trying to draw people in with these pigeons, they're best off making them drop with noticeably higher frequency for non-full parties using the DF, otherwise people serious about farming them will simply look for 7 other non-new players.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Ok, this train of logic needs to stop.

Realistically, people "farm" these mounts in farm parties. That means most people run it in PF parties that value speed of killing the primal over carrying new players and waiting in a queue for a party that might not even be able to kill the primal in the first place. The way people go about trying to get these mounts mostly doesn't even support "clearing it for new players" when most Party Finder mount farm parties only want experienced people who can kill it in their sleep. Yes, there's players out there who, through some act of RNGesus, managed to score the mount in there, but players who acquire the mount that way are most likely a tiny minority (and incredibly lucky).

If the devs are concerned about DF queue times for players needing these primals and are trying to draw people in with these pigeons, they're best off making them drop with noticeably higher frequency for non-full parties using the DF, otherwise people serious about farming them will simply look for 7 other non-new players.

And how are those parties formed? Through PF, which may involve random newer players wanting more experience even if they aren't entirely new to the fight itself. PFs that don't fill up may end up queuing anyway, thus grabbing randoms. Regardless, that doesn't mean people aren't solo queuing on their own. A lot do, which is why EX modes pop friendly regularly.

Nonsense. People would still queue with friends first. In fact, they'd be even more likely to because they could do it over a weekend, get their mounts and never touch the content again outside of roulettes.

Again. If you don't want to chance low odds, don't. They will inevitably be increased sometime before 4.0. Why do you need the mount now? You don't. You want it. Well then, you have to deal with atrociously low odds. That's the trade off for wanting it on release instead of a year later. Back before Heavensward, very few people had ponies. Now everyone does.

[Cidel]

And how are those parties formed? Through PF, which may involve random newer players wanting more experience even if they aren't entirely new to the fight itself. PFs that don't fill up may end up queuing anyway, thus grabbing randoms. Regardless, that doesn't mean people aren't solo queuing on their own. A lot do, which is why EX modes pop friendly regularly.

And we all know how well most stories involving new players joining farm parties end up, right? And I never said people aren't solo queuing for primals with mount drops; it's just clearly so much less frequent due to most preferring to join parties with fast and easy kills. And most PF parties I've seen/been in for mount farming disband/wait if they can't get the full 8.

Nonsense. People would still queue with friends first. In fact, they'd be even more likely to because they could do it over a weekend, get their mounts and never touch the content again outside of roulettes.

This is actually more or less proving my point. That people would run these duties with acquaintances and get what they want, server side, and then never touch the content again. People would rather do these fights with either people they are familiar with or can have a better degree of trust for success through PF than blindly going into DF; which has a nice little thread floating around about the "horrors" of it. Not sure why you felt the need to bring up running with friends when you're advocating this being for new players in DF queues.

Again. If you don't want to chance low odds, don't. They will inevitably be increased sometime before 4.0. Why do you need the mount now? You don't. You want it. Well then, you have to deal with atrociously low odds. That's the trade off for wanting it on release instead of a year later. Back before Heavensward, very few people had ponies. Now everyone does.

Right. So that's why most people end up doing these mount farms server-side to hang on to some small hope that people in their party are decent enough to hang around for more drops after they win a roll, in addition to knowing that your party can consistently beat it. Again, I don't know why you're bringing up these being a luxury rather than a necessity when the argument is that claiming SE adds the mount as a "bonus" to get people to help new players is erroneous when the majority of interested players will be running the primals with fellow-experienced players.

[AlphaFox]

Just throwing my 2 cents in but if I am actively looking to farm, I agree I am not going to look for newbies who want to clear it, I am going to hunt for those like mind people who know the fight all the way through and won't screw up. Its an incentive to keep running it, but not for newbies for the most part. Sure I may bring some along if they ask for the clear or I feel they can but if the intent is to farm birds, well newbies wait outside.

[Morningstar1337]

Again. If you don't want to chance low odds, don't. They will inevitably be increased sometime before 4.0. Why do you need the mount? You don't. You want it.

FIFY

Think about it, functionally you only need the Chocobo. Every other mount is there for epeen's and collectability's sake. And the desire is what keeps content relevant (though not necessarily for DF.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And we all know how well most stories involving new players joining farm parties end up, right? And I never said people aren't solo queuing for primals with mount drops; it's just clearly so much less frequent due to most preferring to join parties with fast and easy kills. And most PF parties I've seen/been in for mount farming disband/wait if they can't get the full 8.

In NA. You have to remember a large portion of this game's fanbase comes from Japan. They Duty Find Savage from the moment it launches. It works as intended for JP players because they frequently DF everything. That said, people's umbrage with other players is not a problem of the developers. While doubtless you'll see awful players try to sneak into a PF for an easy carry, you'll see plenty of impatient players who nitpick the slight miscue. I see plenty of PFs with no requirements except decent enough gear.

This is actually more or less proving my point. That people would run these duties with acquaintances and get what they want, server side, and then never touch the content again. People would rather do these fights with either people they are familiar with or can have a better degree of trust for success through PF than blindly going into DF; which has a nice little thread floating around about the "horrors" of it. Not sure why you felt the need to bring up running with friends when you're advocating this being for new players in DF queues.

No, it really doesn't. People will usually opt for grouping with friends over randoms if possible. RNG makes it so those who desperately want these mounts immediately will solo queue or do half parties when their friends simply refuse to keep trying. Were it a guaranteed drop at x99 attempts or less, they won't need to, and can instead plan ten runs a day to get their mount in a little under two weeks. Although more popular in Japan than North America, it does keep queues active.

Right. So that's why most people end up doing these mount farms server-side to hang on to some small hope that people in their party are decent enough to hang around for more drops after they win a roll, in addition to knowing that your party can consistently beat it. Again, I don't know why you're bringing up these being a luxury rather than a necessity when the argument is that claiming SE adds the mount as a "bonus" to get people to help new players is erroneous when the majority of interested players will be running the primals with fellow-experienced players.

How people choose to go about collecting collectables doesn't change its intention. We're not talking about content like say, the Daidem, where if no one does it then it's a waste. These mounts exist both in part to maintain active queues and serve as bragging rights of sorts. They are vanity and nothing else. Even bad PF groups that break do still net experience because newer players involved got to see the mechanics first hand and may do better with another group later on. JP players don't have these problems even remotely to the extent we do because they're far more patient on either side of the coin (learning the fight and accepting mistakes, respectively). And therein lies the rub. Square has to cater to two markets with vastly different skill levels, preferences and attitudes. Some content will annoy one based on that criteria alone. In this case, you'll probably see more NA players wait while JP players just DF until they get it. A good example of that is how this board blew up in a fury over the Anima weapon grind while the JP board barely even mentioned it outside of just doing it.

In the end, even if only 10% (I wager it's higher; definitely so in Japan) of NA players solo queue for mounts or take newer players in a group. The pigeons have done what they were meant to.