What can I do to stop this?

[winsock]

No, it's you who doesn't understand what that means. What it means is that I'll live my life, and you live yours. I can make my own judgements about when I want to leave a group and when you make that same judgement about leaving a group, I won't hold it against you. I'm free to do what I want and so are you. You quite literally do not know what that statement means.

Lol, "live and let live" is about tolerance and implies no harm is done between the parties involved. For example, you could not adopt a "murderer" lifestyle and expect people to be tolerant. In other words, it isn't "live and let live" if you "live to end life"

If the way you want to live actively and negatively impacts others, it isn't "live and let live".

Are you genuinely wanting ppl to tolerate you walking on them?

[Jpec07]

I go in knowing there is the possibility that I won't get a good run and that there is a 30 minute penalty in addition to screwing over everyone else in the instance in the event I should choose to leave.

Fixed that for you.

That is the full description of the system. And, despite knowing the current state of DF, SE has recently said that they feel the penalty is appropriate and have no plans to change it. What many other people here are doing is applying a layer of white knighting and social-justice-pursuits based on personal biases onto the existing system. Given who they are and their other posting tendencies, I can't say I'm surprised.

Do you always deflect this way when you're called on your egocentric views and actions? Calling people "white knights" who are making legitimate counterpoints does nothing to address the point itself, and is an ad hominem fallacy. Point being, you can't effectively counter an argument by calling the people who are making that argument "white knights" or "social justice bozos" (to be polite).

Now, you're suggesting that the system ought to define behavior, and the community shouldn't police itself some; am I getting that right? It's hard to read what you're actually saying when you layer it behind angst that people are telling you that you're contributing to the problem.

Unlike these over righteous people I don't presume to tell someone how to play this game. There are times I've queued as a healer or DPS and had a tank leave. If it's not a run that's likely to get a replacement, I leave and re-queue. At worst it's a 15 minute wait for a leveling roulette queue as a DPS. Big deal.

You cannot assume that your experiences are universal. While it may only be 15 minutes for you, there may be other circumstances that have lead to longer time lost for other players (say they're queueing specifically for ARF for the Eso bonus, or a specific dungeon in the 50 roulette because they want the gear for glamour - they're going to have a bad time simply because you decided that your desire to not do that dungeon is more important than their desire to do it). Furthermore, you're saying that your desire to drop will result in up to 15 minutes of waiting for those people if they decide to leave--three or seven other people who your selfishness has cost fifteen minutes. It adds up. If efficiency really is the name of the game (as you claim), then leaving a dungeon at the outset is arbitrarily introducing inefficiency to their gameplay.

But why should you care? They're not you.

But really, if this is the stance people want to have, then okay. I assume that any time you encounter anyone that isn't playing this game the "right" way, you also pick up your keyboard and club them with it. I assume you will spend 60 minutes anytime you queue into a Ramuh EX through mentor roulette trying to teach people how to pass a DPS check or handle priority mechanics. I assume that any time you encounter a DPS not playing their class optimally or a healer not DPSing, you make it your mission to fix them. I assume that anytime you see someone without materia melded in your gear you take a dump on them.

Nice Strawman, there, with a slight bit of argumentum ad absurdum. You're really giving a great showcase of logical fallacies. I should show this to my high school debate teacher, because he'd get a kick out of it. There's a large difference between arguing on a forum for how things should be and how players ought to behave and being an asshole.

But there is one point I must address; the Mentor Roulette EXISTS SO YOU, WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE, CAN HELP THOSE WHO DO NOT. That was the goal of the whole mentor system. And you're arguing that, because the system doesn't do enough to discourage quitting, you should not follow through on what was the original goal and live up to that "mentor" status, and should ruin the experience of new players. You should enter that roulette to help people, and when you can't be bothered to do that, you might as well not even queue.

In the meanwhile, I'll just live and let live and let people enjoy the game how they want to even if sometimes it comes at a slight inconvenience to myself.

Way to try and make yourself look good, there. If only you hadn't argued in favor of piss-poor player behavior and crappy, selfish attitudes, it might be believable.

[Laraul]

My problem lies in tanks. There are many problems I've had with tank players during my farm, but the one that bothers me the most is a tank will leave as soon as we enter a dungeon, leaving us stranded in this dungeon for 30-40+ minutes waiting for.

I can't say tanks spontaneously drop anymore than any other class when playing, and a player actually abandoning a dungeon is rather rare. Maybe occasionally during an Aurum Vale run. 10 tankless runs in two days? I don't buy it. Not single tank joined mid run during run of those ten times either? Sounds highly unlikely.

[Brian_]

Lol, "live and let live" is about tolerance and implies no harm is done between the parties involved. For example, you could not adopt a "murderer" lifestyle and expect people to be tolerant. In other words, it isn't "live and let live" if you "live to end life"

If the way you want to live actively and negatively impacts others, it isn't "live and let live".

Are you genuinely wanting ppl to tolerate you walking on them?

No, what I am saying is quite clear. What you are saying is that we should all be vigilantes and impose individual "justice" in place of actual laws.

Using your example, I am saying that if a murder is committed, the murderer still has their rights to a fair trial, fair punishment, and fair treatment under the law. I don't get to personally decide what the proper punishment is due to my own pettiness and vindictiveness.

So, if you want to leave a roulette, go ahead. We all play by the same rules and the system will punish you according to the rules. It's not my job to punish or judge you according to what I view as appropriate or inappropriate behavior.

[Brian_]

Ranting

To you I only have a single response because your post just reeks of blindness and a severe lack of perspective.

PLD was my first (and still preferred) job. I cleared all of Coil on PLD and mained it until mid-way through the Gordias raid cycle. My first ARR relic was on PLD.

Despite all that, I no longer queue for any dungeon using PLD. Why? Because through thousands of dungeon runs worth of experience, I realized that doing the same dungeon on WAR consistently shortened the run by 2-3 minutes. This is despite the same DPS optimization and gear.

So, according to your logic, nobody should ever play PLD in a dungeon. If you only have PLD leveled, you should just not queue for dungeons. You're wasting everyone's time due to a personal insistence. It adds up. If efficiency really is the name of the game (as I claim), then playing PLD is arbitrarily introducing inefficiency to your gameplay.

But why should I care? The point is I don't care. You are not me. You are not forced to abide by my own approach to the game. You can do whatever you want within your individual rights and I will do likewise. That is the point. If I disagree with you, I will express it using my individual rights and won't instead impose my opinions on your free will.

[Violette]

God i hate mentor roulette first timers, they might need some help and that annoys the shit out of me.

[Brian_]

God i hate mentor roulette first timers, they might need some help and that annoys the shit out of me.

I didn't address this point because I felt it was asinine and people clearly didn't read this line in my first post --

Do I leave dungeons? Yea. I try not to do it if I queue into something like Sastasha or anything with a green leaf or bonus (even if I don't care for the bonus)

But, I'll address it anyway because this passive aggressive pussyfooting is quite annoying. I have no problem helping people. I probably spend more time in Savage helper runs or Sephirot learning parties (even at this late juncture) than most people here even spend in the content overall. But, I explicitly said what I did in regards to groups that really can't clear.

So some people here -- probably for lack of actual experience -- have said that the Mentor Roulette's bonus is given so that people stay and help. You do realize that if you don't clear the duty, you don't get the bonus, right? As someone who has actually queued into Ramuh EX multiple times through Mentor Roulette and sat through a lock-out worth of wiping, I would say the system hardly does what some imply.

Instead they suggest that everyone just spend 60 minutes locked in Ramuh EX with a party that has no hope of clearing for no reward whatsoever.

Given the reputation of toxicity some of these people have on their own servers, I'd say their standards for themselves should better reflect their standards for others if they want to do such hypocritical white knighting.

[Violette]

My feelings are hurt. I thought we got on great.

Though glass houses and stones man.

[HoodRat]

Some people can't see the difference between a group who can learn the mechanics and clear and a group who has no chance at all and just needs to leave because the amount of time they are given from the mentor roulette is not enough to help them. You can't help those who aren't interested in actually learning.

[ADVSS]

Some people can't see the difference between a group who can learn the mechanics and clear and a group who has no chance at all and just needs to leave because the amount of time they are given from the mentor roulette is not enough to help them. You can't help those who aren't interested in actually learn

The sad truth