MATERIA for RARE/EX GEAR

[Physic]

sooo you want to make materia U/U items not only the best items in game, but also the easiest to obtain? the fact that you lose the items slows down materia considerably, and increases the cost and effort to make dramatically. If you have a base weapon that never blows up, that will be the easiest to meld.

i had a long complicated post about a way in which they could make items add materia, without elimnating the need for gatherers or crafters, involving making a proxy version of the item that they could add a materia to, then add that to u/u weapons, but its a lot of work to execute, and at the end of the day you will still need crafters, and the materia u/u should still not be the best equip, but only equal to teh crafted ones.

but at the end of the day
gatherers must gather
crafters must craft
battlers must battle

you cant give battlers complete control over making items via battle. (ie defeating monsters for finished drops)

[Physic]

"There's no way around it?" Are you, really, SO arrogant that you think you've considered EVERY possible scenario; and that the current materia system is the only way to ensure that crafting doesn't get "pushed aside?" That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on these threads...A great compromise would be to make dungeon/primal drops WAY harder to get, so that nearly everyone in the game is forced to "settle" for crafted gear....just as they've done in countless other RPG titles. In almost every RPG imaginable, there's always some ridiculously difficult boss fight that gives players the best gear in the game.

You're asking for that aspect of RPGs to be thrown completely out the window, and have it reward players w/ something as insignificant and superficial as stupid a@@ bragging rights. Honestly, who gives a s@#% what you've done on some dumb game, if it doesn't ease gameplay for you....Bragging rights....really?

IMO I dont think having one best in slot gear is viable in an MMO, though i do agree beating something epic and getting something epic, or at least having the potential to be epic is a good concept. But you cant let battlers get it without involving the classes whose whole purpose it is to create items, or provide the materials for the items.

I wont say no solution exists, but cant just make materia meldable in the same way that regular gear is. it has to involve at the very least a similar loss of items/materials IE you lose the equivalent(or more since you cant destroy the weapon) when you fail.

Also it shouldnt be the best in game, merely a headstart with a cool skin, that can be comparable to the craziest things a crafter /gather class can create. (i dont really like seeing just one item on every top tier person and one option for playstyle, i think ffxiii got this right, multiple top teir items, with the highest ones starting closer to completion, and everyone having different stats/uses)

oh yeah side edit, not all rares should be created equal, and not all rares should get the same amount of materia addable, if they do go that route.

[Brannigan]

If you could add materia to non crafted gear, it would marginalize crafting. There is no way around it. Crafted gear should be better with materia. Dungeon/primal drops should be for bragging rights only. I think what they've done with the sentinel's set for example is a great compromise.

This is a god damn ridiculous point of view. Drops from actual content should be for bragging rights only? Look, crafting is a nice little mini-game but this isn't The Sims Online or EVE. Items that come from tough content NEED to be the best. Crafters can stay plenty relevant through materia creation and by making stuff for free companies and player housing. Crafted gear should be something that is good for starting out your adventuring career before you start getting real gear from dungeons and quests.

Also it shouldnt be the best in game, merely a headstart with a cool skin, that can be comparable to the craziest things a crafter /gather class can create. (i dont really like seeing just one item on every top tier person and one option for playstyle, i think ffxiii got this right, multiple top teir items, with the highest ones starting closer to completion, and everyone having different stats/uses)

oh yeah side edit, not all rares should be created equal, and not all rares should get the same amount of materia addable, if they do go that route.

This is crazy too - you pretty much have it backwards. High quality crafted items should be a good head start to help you get gear from fighting.

If it sounds like I'm placing more importance on battle classes than crafters/gatherers it's because I am. Battle is more important than crafting in Final Fantasy.

[SAMINUS]

If Rare/EX gear is less in stats compared to crafted gear, why make it so hard to get? seems pointless with all the hard work in getting gear that is supposed to be special though it is actually less special than gear you can just buy. This is just stupid.

[tymora]

There's 3 Tier II materia (which is NOT hard to do at all)

I'll like to see you try.

Tier II x 2 = 32 to 38.5% (Probabilities known)
3rd Tier II = ~16 to 27.5% (27.5% is the confirmed upper bound but 16% is an estimation)

Chance of a 3 x Tier II = 5% to 10%
Have fun with your 1 in 20.

Max Grade Tier 4 is 10% for 2nd. 3rd appears to be fixed such that it doesn't go below ~9.5 or 9.4% in chances ever. (Grade 14 is 9.8%)
Chance of 3 x Tier IV = 1%.
Have fun with your 1 in 100.

A full 5 materia Grade 16 gear should therefore be about 1 in 10000 if the minimum cap hypothesis is correct.

[Aenarion]

HQ gear is going to become obselete, almost, b/c it's not worth the risk to push for forbidden materia.

actually, the worth of HQ gear is almost entirely in their trait of better success with forbidden materia now, since the amount of boost via the HQ itself is pathetically small since 1.19.

The only thing that's sad, here, is the fact that ppl can find an RMT site, buy a high lvl character, buy max gil, and then buy items (hq gear, and high tier'd materia) to make gear in the game that completely dwarfs any of the current gear gained through "end-game content." And what's even sadder is that you're either too blind or too "stupid" to realize that this a significant problem.

/sigh, you claimed earlier that forbidden materia'd gear was easier to obtain, he refutes it with what should by now be common knowledge, and you back-peddle to the good 'ol "BUT RMT!!!" route? tsk tsk. Put it this way, if you start building and balancing a game around anti-RMT, it'd be nothing but a disaster waiting to happen - case in point, look at FF14 1.0 :P

One of the most appealing aspects of the MMO experience is the ability to compare yourself to fellow players, and see how well you measure up.

for you perhaps, for me personally I don't see a point in what is essentially a pointless e-peen contest. Yes, I do enjoy character progression, but I don't need to compare to others to enjoy MY character's progression.

That's all this game is....SPAM <.<

welcome to the world of MMOs, FF14 just hides the spam less well than other games, that's all.

"There's no way around it?" Are you, really, SO arrogant that you think you've considered EVERY possible scenario; and that the current materia system is the only way to ensure that crafting doesn't get "pushed aside?" That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on these threads...A great compromise would be to make dungeon/primal drops WAY harder to get, so that nearly everyone in the game is forced to "settle" for crafted gear....just as they've done in countless other RPG titles.

You realize what you're asking for here? let's entertain for a moment, the thought of making Ifrit weapons drop at around the same rate as 3x materia gear...no wait, since you say "WAY harder to get", let's put it at around the same rate as 4x materia gear, which is a whopping 0.1~0.4%

You know how many people would be doing the ifrit runs right now once you've made it so you'd need to run ifrit THOUSANDS of times to get all the drops?

I'm gonna guess, nobody will.

Crafters can stay plenty relevant through materia creation and by making stuff for free companies and player housing.

Where did you get your crystal ball - and can I get one too?

If it sounds like I'm placing more importance on battle classes than crafters/gatherers it's because I am. Battle is more important than crafting in Final Fantasy.

fair enough, just note that SE obviously disagrees with your opinion, and so do I.

[Brannigan]

Where did you get your crystal ball - and can I get one too?

I use an ancient form of fortune telling called "reading"

A: First, focusing on housing, we're thinking not only about the interior, but also the garden and exterior and also the appearance of the building. From 2.0, you'll be able to form free companies and decorate your home with crests, install new roofs, renovate of your building, put up a fence, and place objects in your garden. One idea was growing Gysahl greens in the garden. Additionally you could build a stable and raise chocobos. We're planning various ways to expand your home.

It's not like battle classes won't have anything to do. For example, if you defeat an extremely strong monster and get a drop, you can give it to a crafter, who can then make for you a trophy that can be used as a home decoration. It's in these ways that we are formulating the “live” feel with housing. We will be updating these things a lot once 2.0 comes out, so I hope all you crafters and gatherers out there look forward to it.

I hope I don't have to explain how materia doesn't become irrelevant. (Unless they stupidly stick with this no-attachment policy)

As far as your second point that was directed towards me: Crafters can't effectively use parties. Crafters can't use dungeons. Crafters can't fight bosses. Soon, crafters won't be able to do the main story quests. I'm NOT saying crafting should be worthless. I am saying that, for the health of the game, crafted gear NEEDS to take a back seat to dropped gear. Now, "dropped gear" includes things like Champion's Lance (which is crafted from a drop), but that shouldn't mean that every monster just drops crafting parts either, because that gets boring and has its own problems.

Gear that is crafted from common parts (like, say, a cobalt cuirass with two materia) being the best kills that drive to log in and keep on going after that hard-to-get loot. They're re-launching this game, FINAL FANTASY XIV, and the Final Fantasy brand evokes certain images: epic adventures, fierce boss battles, whiny teenagers. The average person isn't going to play this game for the deep (lol) crafting system, so I basically see it going something like this

I like final fantasy and will play the story-> I now enjoy playing the game and want to get the best gear possible-> the best gear is crafted so I will buy it-> I have fought every monster and no items are upgrades, therefore I will stop logging in because I am bored.

Finally, in this long-winded rambling crappy post, I'd like to address the idea that forbidden materia items are hard to obtain. Forbidden materia isn't "hard to obtain, it's annoying to obtain. You can either throw gil or time at them. There's no way you can "play better" to get your forbidden materia to stick like you can improve your skills at killing a boss. Winning at a slot machine isn't hard, it's just rare.

[Aenarion]

I use an ancient form of fortune telling called "reading"

no doubt, what you seem to lack is the ancient form of fortune telling called "comprehension"

the crystal-ball comment is for how you already seems to know how relevant the housing/gardening system will be to the overall game play, especially considering that those system tends to be low-volume trades. After all, you really think people are gonna be replacing houses/furniture on a regular basis? Unless housing/gardening can generate high volume and high demand for DoH service, then no, it cannot hope to begin to replace anything.

As far as your second point that was directed towards me: Crafters can't effectively use parties. Crafters can't use dungeons. Crafters can't fight bosses. Soon, crafters won't be able to do the main story quests. I'm NOT saying crafting should be worthless.

all correct, until this...

I am saying that, for the health of the game, crafted gear NEEDS to take a back seat to dropped gear.

that's where it became purely your opinion, and I simply disagree. With the way the current grind curve are for DoW/M vs. DoH, there would simply be little reason for anyone to lvl up crafting if you also put the high end gear squarely in the pocket of DoW/M. At this point you might as well get rid of crafting and gathering all-together, which I suspect you probably wouldn't mind anyway.

Gear that is crafted from common parts (like, say, a cobalt cuirass with two materia) being the best kills that drive to log in and keep on going after that hard-to-get loot.

yet you completely ignore the cost of those "common" parts. As for a drive to keep logging in, well, there's simply not many in this game atm, crafted gear or not.

I like final fantasy and will play the story-> I now enjoy playing the game and want to get the best gear possible-> the best gear is crafted so I will buy it-> I have fought every monster and no items are upgrades, therefore I will stop logging in because I am bored.

If something like that happens, then there are far more fundamental design flaws to deal with, simply giving total control over the "best gear possible" to the battle classes will solve nothing.

Finally, in this long-winded rambling crappy post, I'd like to address the idea that forbidden materia items are hard to obtain. [B]Forbidden materia isn't "hard to obtain, it's annoying to obtain.

you're just grasping at straw now, is arguing semantics the best you can come up with? hell, one can say that nothing is hard to obtain, they're all just annoying to get. By definition the low chance of success means that it is hard, but hey, who would've knew, all those people at the casino just couldn't be bothered to win the slot machine, it's just so annoying to try to win amirite?

what your post basically boils down to is "lalala I hate crafting/gathering, I only play battle classes, and therefore the game should be designed around what I like to do" Not that I should be surprised, considering how you lumped the Sims and Eve Online together earlier

[Brannigan]

the crystal-ball comment is for how you already seems to know how relevant the housing/gardening system will be to the overall game play, especially considering that those system tends to be low-volume trades. After all, you really think people are gonna be replacing houses/furniture on a regular basis? Unless housing/gardening can generate high volume and high demand for DoH service, then no, it cannot hope to begin to replace anything.

Materia makes it less important for furniture stuff to be in constant cycle.

yet you completely ignore the cost of those "common" parts.

I ignore the cost of the common parts because they are common.

you're just grasping at straw now, is arguing semantics the best you can come up with? hell, one can say that nothing is hard to obtain, they're all just annoying to get. By definition the low chance of success means that it is hard, but hey, who would've knew, all those people at the casino just couldn't be bothered to win the slot machine, it's just so annoying to try to win amirite?

Okay, look. It's like this. To get a piece of gear with two materia on it you're basically just rolling dice over and over. It's about a 15-25% chance of success (depending on the quality of materia, etc). To raise your chances of success you can wear better crafting gear on your character. Not that this really matters right now since a single materia blows most dropped pieces out of the water, but I'm willing to chalk that up to Darkhold stuff being outdated and coffer gear being a first attempt at itemization.

To defeat Ifrit you need to get a group and go fight him. Your success rate depends on how experienced your party members are. This is because, when you fail at Ifrit, there are things you can do as a player (not just as your character) to improve. You can work on your reactions, you can work on your positioning, you can make better judgments on when to use your abilities. As you gain experience as a player you become better at the game and raise your chance of success.

It's important to distinguish between things the player has no control over and those that the player does. Gambling isn't difficult.

Finally,

what your post basically boils down to is "lalala I hate crafting/gathering, I only play battle classes, and therefore the game should be designed around what I like to do" Not that I should be surprised, considering how you lumped the Sims and Eve Online together earlier

This is bullshit. I don't want future content to be basically invalidated because of crafted gear. I've said previously that crafted gear should be a good starter kit and HQ crafted gear should be a great starter kit (maybe not in this thread, and if that's the case I'm sorry for not making that clearer), but item drops should come out ahead in the end. Letting R/EX add materia keeps crafted gear in cycle because you'll always need something to burn when you're upgrading to a new piece and need to slot it. I don't hate crafting but you have to realize that ultimately the game IS focused on battle. Crafting can stay relevant just fine without ruining the main game content.

[Zanfire]

well im glad someone said it, it makes my point of why this games endgame content feel like almost nothing more prevalent. Most stuff out, there is little reason to get a group of people to spend time running a raid or doing ifrit over and over because you can get s slotted piece thats better then it WAY easier, making the endgame content that much less appealing, making it feel like we have less to do.

It should always be the stuff you have to work your butt of for in difficult fights with low drop rates SHOULD be the best gear, with materia gear being just below it. Of course there is plenty of things that needs some balancing in the game, and i can bet most of what will be added system-wise will cause plenty of problems. It confuses me why people are so willing to pay full price to deal with all of these issues.