SCH and WHM Secondary Stats

[DarkmoonVael]

So...
CritAcc for an off heal ast doing most of noct sect

CritSpellspeed for a diurnal main heal

Seems ok to me
Might do that once 3.3 is here

Well, for noct i would also do crit spellspeed, but thats because i use it when solo healing certain fights as main healer. Noct ast makes a very powerful solo healer for some of the end game content.

[mp-please]

May i ask why this topic is called Whm and SCH instead of "HEALER"
Why is the AST pushed away ?

Because OP only has SCH and WHM lol

[Rawrz]

Alrighty, since Det seems to be a terrible choice and the stat weight of .08 was thrown out, I decided to try and do a mini-experiment between them. If I could parse I would go farther than this, but my method is:

Equip a Gearset with equal Mind, but a large difference in Determination. (Using Bonus Mind stats to balance them easily.)
I used a skill 30 times then took the mean value between the Max and the Min. Example Max:150 Min:50, Therefore, 150-(150-50)/2 = Mean: 100
At 1141 Mind, the low Det set has 318 Det, while the high det set has 530. Difference of Det between the two is 212. Take the difference between the Mean and Divide by the difference of Det, to see how much each det is worth.

Embrace (200 Potency):
(Low Det) Maxed at 1990, Minned at 1876, Mean of 1933
(High Det) Maxed at 2033, Minned at 1921, Mean of 1977
(Weight) (2033-1990)/212 = ~0.2028 per Det per Health Point

Blizzard II:
(Low Det) Maxed at 511, Minned at 467, Mean of 489
(High Det) Maxed at 526, Minned at 480, Mean of 503
(Weight) (503-489)/212= .0660 per Damage Point.

If 4 Targets the weight would be
(Weight) [4(503-489)]/212= .2642 per Damage Point.

Broil:
(Low Det) Maxed at 1719, Minned at 1589, Mean of 1669
(High Det) Maxed at 1791, Minned at 1645, Mean of 1718
(Weight) (1718-1669)/212= .2311 per Damage Point.

As spell speed also affects DoT's now, without increased effort, I would not be able to reliably get their value with this method, unless I managed to get SS the same on both low and high Det situations.

So take with this what you will. o-o Even if the sample size was relatively small, it still gives you an approximation. Det, to me, is a linear increase, but scales with the potency of your spell (.0011-.0013 per base potency). I'm still probably gonna put det on my relic, unless I really feel I need the piety. My SS is high enough where it is (maybe xD,)

EDIT: I repeated this experiment on Adlo, and its a little wonky. o-o Its a 600 Potency spell, thats broken into a 300 Potency heal and a 300 Potency shield. This exagerates the difference, because however much the difference is between the low and high det data points, the difference will become doubled from the shield.
Adloquium
(Low Det) Maxed at 2822, Minned at 2664, Mean of 2743
(High Det) Maxed at 2896, Minned at 2742, Mean of 2819
(Weight for Heal) (2819-2743)/212= .3585 per Health Point
(Weight for Both) [2(2819-2743)]/212= .7170 per Health Point

[Vulcwen]

That math makes me cringe.. median =/= average (which you used).
Also.. the amount of healing gained/det isn't the stat weight, you need to compare that number with the healing gained/mnd to get a stat weight out of it.

Stat weights are to compare the effects of different stats, what you calculated is an intermediate value, which doesn't say anything about which stat is better in itself.

[Rawrz]

More stuff in a second. I confused median and mean for a second. xD Its been a while since I've actually had to pull them into active memory.

[KeiranOlive]

May i ask why this topic is called Whm and SCH instead of "HEALER"
Why is the AST pushed away ?

That's just because I don't play AST much and haven't gotten it to 60 yet. I didn't mean to imply that it shouldn't be included in this discussion. It's obviously just as important as SCH and WHM.

[Rawrz]

Since det is linear, the difference between the two should be about the same, if accurate.

Embrace (200 Potency):
(Low Det) Maxed at 1990, Minned at 1876, Mean of 1933| Difference:114
(High Det) Maxed at 2033, Minned at 1921, Mean of 1977| Difference:112

Blizzard II:
(Low Det) Maxed at 511, Minned at 467, Mean of 489| Difference:44
(High Det) Maxed at 526, Minned at 480, Mean of 503| Difference:46

Broil:
(Low Det) Maxed at 1719, Minned at 1589, Mean of 1669| Difference:130
(High Det) Maxed at 1791, Minned at 1645, Mean of 1718| Difference:146
Deviates too far

(Low Det) Maxed at 2822, Minned at 2664, Mean of 2743| Difference:158
(High Det) Maxed at 2896, Minned at 2742, Mean of 2819| Difference:154

Going back to see how Mind scales using this method.

[zuzu-bq]

Determination is a better choise on WHM because they scale better with raw numbers. For SCH and AST, not so much. Piety scales horribly per piety point and the PIE materia give a small quantity of points, so its not really worth for pretty much all of them specially AST since he is the only healer without a percentage mana recovery ability.

[mp-please]

Determination is a better choise on WHM because they scale better with raw numbers. For SCH and AST, not so much. Piety scales horribly per piety point and the PIE materia give a small quantity of points, so its not really worth for pretty much all of them specially AST since he is the only healer without a percentage mana recovery ability.

Except det is trash on WHM because we already heal high enough, its not like +100 or -100 on cure will make any difference if we don't heal on the correct time.
Piety is bad but its not as bad as det, also assize increases the value of pie by 0.1 per 1 point of pie.
Accuracy is a must now but its pointless to go full ACC as it won't give us 100% hit rates and also how WHM will never be asked to dps that much.
SS is total crap due to how telegraphed fights work.

Tl;dr: substats are all crap, other than some accuracy, it doesn't matter

[Sabeta]

snip

Crit is the number one stat for all healers. However, by the very nature of crit it's somewhat inconsistent and for WHM/AST can often lead to overheals. While being the best stat, I would only suggest it if you plan on DPSing a lot.

SpS is the second best stat. It buffs up your HoTs and DoTs. Slightly worse than Crit, but does offer more flexibility with timings and reaction speeds, so certainly worthwhile.

Accuracy is technically the best, but I'm mentioning it as third best because once you're at cap you don't need anymore of it, and it's useless if you don't plan on doing any DPS.

Piety/Vitality are fourth best stats, tied.They allow you more chances to make silly mistakes.

Determination is worse stat. It was always the worst, only just barely beaten by SpS, but Heavensward nerfed it even further into the ground.

All secondaries don't make a huge difference in healing, but they do make a big difference in DPS. If you don't want to DPS, or don't plan on doing it too often, I would suggest SpS as your primary. If you do intend to DPS a lot, and especially if you're playing Scholar, then I suggest Crit. Your secondary secondary should be Accuracy if you plan on DPSing at all, ever. Either invest all of your points into it, or do a mix of Acc+something else (ie Piety, ,SpS, Crit. Literally anything except Det)