Thread: WAR's 2.1 changes.

Originally Posted by Lyth

Prior to Gordias, the general player perception was that if you wanted to MT, you had to play PLD.

I'm not disagreeing with you here. I know very well that the perception was Pld = MT, back in the coil days. However, perception does not dictate reality.

Firstly, that perception was generally propagated by healers who were afraid to heal War's in the MT position. They preferred a more stable Hp bar, rather than the ups and downs of a War's self-healing styled mitigation, and that's completely fair because it allowed them more time to pay attention to other things and actually learn the fights. Given that the coil fights were extremely heavy on mechanics, it's not surprising that most groups preferred to learn with a Pld as MT. However that attitude only persisted as long as people were learning. Once they got comfortable with the fights, things changed.

Secondly, and this is the main point, no one was kicking Wars out of parties just because Pld was the preferred MT. Wars were pigeon holed as the OT, sure, but 1) that hasn't changed, and 2) they weren't being cock blocked from the content just because they were Wars. During Gordias, Pld's were being shunned from even going into the raid. MT or OT made no difference. No one wanted them around. PF's were explicitly stating, "Drk or War or gtfo." The only time War's suffered even close to similar treatment was before their adjustments in 2.1, and it wasn't as big a deal back then because they were only just introducing the first raid, ever.

Again, I'm not saying that the treatment of War's as the designated OT didn't suck back in the coil days. It did suck (though, if that's a standing complaint, then it's one that Wars should still be complaining about today). However, not having the opportunity to MT in a raid doesn't compare to not having the opportunity to even play that raid, which is exactly what happened to Pld's until they were already over-geared for the content. Having the state of tanking be thrown that far out of balance is pretty indefensible, in my opinion, and given that War's are still being pigeon holed into the OT position, worse than ever before, I can't say a lot of progress has been made.

Originally Posted by Xenosan

I disagree with the notion ' only true PLDs will stick to the job.' Bogus. As a 'true PLD,' for your love of the Job, consider not using it, and then maybe SE will start addressing the forthcoming weaknesses that have always existed with it, but were tolerated because (only) raids pander to it. In that respect, having a third tank at the table may be the best thing for PLD in the long-run, but at present folks should stay vocal.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what has happened since around 3.2. Even here on the forums, I can pick out quite a few names of players who used to have Pld listed as their main but have since then switched to War or Drk. It's exceedingly rare to run into another Pld in DF these days as well. Even I have all but retired mine. I use my Pld more for PvP than I do for any of the active PvE content, only going back to it when it's something new and I want a nice set of comfy shoes to learn in.

That said, I don't think having a third (or even eventual fourth) tank is necessarily a good thing in this case (not to say that having Drk is bad in anyway. I do love that job), because it provides a crutch for the tank balance to lean on. I don't think SE really cares which tank people play as, so long as they are still playing as a tank. Honestly, their last set of "major adjustment" was pretty telling of just how invested SE is in actually taking a serious look at fixing Pld's long standing problems. I'm pretty sure that the only reason they even did that much was because Raid queues were suffering as a result of the current state of things, which kind of gives us a hint at their bottom line: Queue times.

The only thing that seems to ever spur SE into action in regards to job balancing is queue times, which is probably because it's their best judge of player activity and subscriber satisfaction. If queue times drop, then they take a look at the problem, because their bottom line is to keep people playing, no matter what. However, if queue times persist, then, as far as SE is concerned, everything is fine. Pld's might be as rare as a purple spotted unicorn, but so long as those previous Pld players are still playing as Drk or War, then all is green in the pasture. It's still just a business to them, after all.

Originally Posted by Xenosan

Alot of good points

I cant agree more to this, speaking of 4.0 speculation onwards I really dont want to see what happens to pld if a 4th tank is introduced, unless they give them some more. Blind being diminished returns is sad, i especially agree as i would often pop bulwark after flash(not sure if it really helped but seemed to) on trash pulls, or if i was gladiatoring it up for lols had featherfoot ready for those moments