Thread: WAR's 2.1 changes.

Originally Posted by Lyth

This isn't really how it happened. The world first clears of Bismark, Ravana, as well as A1S and A2S were all done with a PLD MT. Bear in mind that this was simply an extension of PLD spending the entirety of 2.x as the de facto MT. In contrast, there was a fairly widespread belief, in this forum included, that DRK had no place in the standard two-tank setup, and people were trying to play it like a sub-par WAR.

I'm don't mean to suggest that Pld couldn't do the content. Saying it was "damn near unplayable" is probably an overstatement. I did my first Bis Ex clear at roughly item level 175-180, so I know it was doable; however, to say that it was completely undesirable in raiding parties is not a stretch in the least.

You're right to point out that Drk needed to make a strong impression. It was an untested tank, and people were still unsure of it. Even here in the forums, the general opinion about the "best way" to play Drk and manage its skills changed dramatically between 3.0 and 3.2; so, it's not surprising that the first tier of Heavensward Raids was tailored to Drks. That said, needing to make a strong impression for the new job does not mean that they needed to throw an old job under the bus, and that's exactly what they did. Could Pld's clear the content? Sure, but it didn't take very long for people to figure out that they brought absolutely nothing useful to the party and that the meta had shifted from War-Pld to War-Drk.

I wouldn't call that a "liberating moment." Why? Because it would have only been liberating to people who didn't want to play Pld in the first place, and no one ever had to. There was always an alternative to Pld. If you didn't want to play it (even before 3.0) you could always play as a War. Even when Pld was perceived to be the "best" MT, no one was booting Wars out of the party. Pld's, on the other hand, were actively being ostracized just for liking the job. I can only speak for my server, but it was very common for Pld's to be forced to switch jobs or get the boot, and PF's specifically requested Drk's and Wars, or even double Wars. Pld fell by the wayside. It got so bad at one point that I actually ran into people in DF who made comments like, "A PLD! I haven't seen one in months!" Or, "Oh wow! There's still some of you around!" It's not that all those people genuinely wanted to play another job. They could have done that at any time. A lot of them (even now) still want to play as a Pld, but they were being actively punished for doing so.

Worse still, the pre-conceived notions about MT and OT positions were basically cemented in stone tablets and dubbed: The Tank Commandments. War's got so unbelievably shafted down OT pipeline that we'll need an army of plungers to get them out of there. Some of them fell into the bizarre mentality that they're actually a Dps class, and that attitude has persisted to this day (even after their dmg nerf). Thankfully, the Dps checks of the current content has stemmed the flow of the great Pld purge, but both Pld and Drk are still considered MT. Considering the OT position is practically taboo for either of them. Personally, I don't see that as a good thing or a better state of affairs.

Originally Posted by Februs

I wouldn't call that a "liberating moment." Why? Because it would have only been liberating to people who didn't want to play Pld in the first place, and no one ever had to. There was always an alternative to Pld. If you didn't want to play it (even before 3.0) you could always play as a War.

Prior to Gordias, the general player perception was that if you wanted to MT, you had to play PLD.

There were some groups which played around with WAR MTs once the fights were on farm, and in a few cases of WAR MTs during savage SCOB. I learned to MT T9 during progression on WAR. But convincing people to try it out for the first time was a struggle, because of job preconceptions.

Playing WAR in 2.x was fine if you preferred OT, and some fights (FCOB in particular) had really fun OT roles. But in some cases, the fights were simplified by solo-tanking, and you didn't even get that opportunity. Many WARs quickly found themselves as part time MNKs in T8.

There's definitely been progress made. I don't really see the OT role opening up as much unless PLD/DRK becomes a more viable combo, which stems in part from the SE/DE buff. But the addition of a fourth tank in the future could balance that role out. For now, I'm content with the fact that as a DRK/PLD, I can MT fights on multiple tank classes, without needing to debate over the matter with the rest of the group. I still prefer DRK unless I see a compelling reason to switch out, but that's another story.