Thread: WAR's 2.1 changes.

Originally Posted by FallenWings

It would make content designing alot more constricted in that they have to make all content manageable by 1 tank.

Not all content. Some would be enough. You would have content where the optimal setup would be one tank, and other where two tanks are needed. If the number of duties for one and the other are almost even, it would be ok. Like you have content that favors DRK MT or PLD MT depending on the type of damage.

Originally Posted by FallenWings

If you make raid content where only 1 tank is ever needed, why would you honestly ever want 2 tanks.Why find 2 tanks when you can just get 1 PLD?

Because sometimes, you don't have a PLD in your group. Or you have two DRK/WAR friends that want to join your party.

Originally Posted by FallenWings

What if you only have a WAR/DRK? Now you HAVE to find another WAR/DRK or eat a the penalty of having lower DPS with a PLD/Tank setup.

It's already like that now. Bringing a PLD means you take a slight penalty over any other tank. Not a big deal.

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Not all content. Some would be enough. You would have content where the optimal setup would be one tank, and other where two tanks are needed. If the number of duties for one and the other are almost even, it would be ok. Like you have content that favors DRK MT or PLD MT depending on the type of damage.

Because sometimes, you don't have a PLD in your group. Or you have two DRK/WAR friends that want to join your party.

It's already like that now. Bringing a PLD means you take a slight penalty over any other tank. Not a big deal.

Not necessarily anymore lol. PLD isn't as bad as people make it out to be and I hope this dumb stigma dies. They still provide some significant utility in the form of HG, RoH, Cover and Divine Veil. So their balance is pretty even now only requiring a few minor tweaks to give each tank a turn at FoTM.

I feel it is far too much of a hassle to constantly design content just for PLD to work or vice versa because it cannot co-operate with the other two tanks. People will always take the path of least resistance so it will always turn to the standard and any less is sub optimal.

You make a fight that is solo-tankable and you ideally want a PLD. Now your raid static has to ask your WAR/DRK to change to PLD/DPS despite maining their role. Or vice versa because you now need a WAR/DRK because PLD/TANK is not viable and PLD/DPS cannot be done.

Doesn't this sound like PLD in Gordias?

Not to mention in 24 mans, alliances would be moaning about having a PLD or WAR/DRK. What if you get 3 WARs but you need a PLD MT to survive a tank buster? What if you only need a WAR/DRK level mitigation in which case PLD is just a gimped tank? What if WAR/DRK want to play MT instead of sidekick OT? What if PLD wants to have some time to use his sword/white magic instead of holding his shield all the time?

Now we need to teach healers that you have to heal WAR/DRK, but don't need to heal PLD at all and just go full DPS. Forcing them to play completely differently just to fulfill a class' huge weakness does not sound like good game design to me.

TLR I don't mind PLD being a meatshield to fufill people's desire of an immovable wall(although I personally don't see the appeal in being nothing but an inanimate object lol), I just don't see it working out in terms of balance in regards to the other tanks.

Originally Posted by FallenWings

Not necessarily anymore lol. PLD isn't as bad as people make it out to be and I hope this dumb stigma dies.

Indeed. But the changes they made to PLD were easy and bland. It's a good thing for balance, but not very interesting when it comes to job identity.

Originally Posted by FallenWings

You make a fight that is solo-tankable and you ideally want a PLD.

Why would you idealy want a PLD just because the content is doable with only one tank ? We had solo tank strat in Coil, but PLD's damage output was not that low compared to WAR. So, yes, having only a PLD to bring another DPS was a huge party-DPS boost.
Let's imagine you have a group of friends including a PLD, a DRK, a WAR, and enough DPS and healers for any setup you want. If having 2 tanks + 2 healers + 4 DPS offers the same overall DPS as 1 PLD + 2healers + 5 DPS, what make you chose PLD over the two tanks ?

The way I see it, it's not "Sorry, you can't come if you're not that job", but more "Ok, we have those jobs, let's use this setup instead of this one"

Originally Posted by FallenWings

What if you get 3 WARs but you need a PLD MT to survive a tank buster? What if you only need a WAR/DRK level mitigation in which case PLD is just a gimped tank? What if WAR/DRK want to play MT instead of sidekick OT? What if PLD wants to have some time to use his sword/white magic instead of holding his shield all the time?

You wouldn't need a PLD. All 3 tanks would still be able to "normally" tank any content. Besides, in 24-man, you're not really that picky about the jobs you have, and setups are made for one tank per party since Syrcus tower
And again, if you have to play PLD in a dual tank setu^p, then it would be the same PLD as now, since the mitigation stacks would be something you decide to use only when you really need it.

i know we're talking about tanks, but i feel like how they balance dps is based on several things like damage vs utility, damage over ease of play, etc. So we got the damage line up of the tanks 10% difference is good, now can we talk utility and mitigation between the three? How about playability and skill required(cant use positionals here, since thats just the dps metric it seems) do they really fit as war most dps, least mit and utility, drk - in the middle, pld least dps highest mit and utility... cause i feel like this is the "place" they want the tanks to be...why do i feel like something is off by quite a bit? this is just my opinion, maybe its wrong but drk doesnt really feel like the middle ground here...

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Dark Knight and Paladin DpS numbers on the logs are actually fairly close together. The top scoring Paladin on Hummelfaust is actually above the top Dark Knight.

Going off the top 10 dps numbers it seems that Paladin does about 10% less damage than Dark Knight which does 10% less damage than Warrior.

You forget to account for DPS bloat. Majority of the top DPS dealers will have the composition catered to themselves. Minus off Balance, double nin/mch and you will see where the gap is coming from.