Thread: WAR's 2.1 changes.

No. There is no strict OT or MT.

2.0 War was never a good thing when the ideal composition was PLD-PLD. War was strictly excluded from content because it was very, very weak.

All tanks need to be able to perform MT positions at a satisfactory level compared to the other tanks, because you cannot always have your ideal compositions in DF or other matching services as well as needing to perform in dungeon content where a tank is always 'MT'. Not to mention the position of 'MT' in raid content moving forward is always swapped between the tanks or both at once.

WAR was not 'designed' or 'meant' to be OT as much as PLD or DRK should. They are relegated OT by the community because PLD and DRK have no comparative tools to WAR in the OT slot or lose access to some skills when not MTing and that is a design flaw that is being brought up by the community.

Old inner beast was by far and large a inferior skill to raw mitigation, that is why it is the way it is now. Healing means jack all if it becomes over-heal or you get one-shot.

Flat out nerfs to WAR's ability to tank and shoehorning it into only OT is never a good idea.

Originally Posted by FallenWings

No. There is no strict OT or MT.

Paladin was literally designed to be the highest defense-based tank in the game.

Originally Posted by Rhode

Paladin was literally designed to be the highest defense-based tank in the game.

So what? There has to be balance otherwise we come to the silly 2.0 era of tank exclusions.

The content must be tuned where the weakest tank mitigation wise can handle it. Otherwise if only PLD can handle the content, then WAR and DRK will effectively be excluded from the content until they get enough VIT to have comparable eHP as a PLD to do said content.

Not to mention excessive mitigation is pointless if there is a trade off of damage for it; which there always will be. Can survive by a longshot but deal 10DPS vs Can survive enough but deal 1000DPS.

I.E:
WAR: Hey guys can I join you for SuperDeathOverlord9001 EX?
Group: Sorry dude, you don't have enough HP and your gear isn't enough for your class. Come back in 1 or 2 months when you have more tomestone gear or something.
WAR: But I have the same gear as your PLD?
Group: Yeah, well he's a PLD and you're a WAR. You don't have as much mitigation as him and will get one-shot by the tank buster.

2 months later.

WAR: Hey guys can I join now? I have just enough eHP to survive like your PLD from 2 months back.
Group: Yeah sorry dude, we're gonna take our PLD just because he has experience and we want to clear it without having to deal with the eHP our PLD had 2 months ago.
WAR: But.. Fudge this I'm switching to X class!

(Replace this with Coil and you have my personal experience in 2.0 Coil pug raiding as a fresh WAR who just got into its first trinity based MMO minus the quitting WAR part.)

[Insert image of War-chan sitting on a bench with Drk-chan]
[Insert image of DF queue times because only 1 tank is viable]
[Insert image of disproportionate tank population because of horrid imbalance. Oh wait, we already have that with WAR.]

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Not necessarily.
For example, if PLD was sturdy enough to either solo tank some things that WAR couldn't, or survive with much much less healing, allowing either a heal to go full DPS or even to replace one heal to bring an additionnal DPS. And yes, if it comes to that, I'd even be okay if PLD's damage was really abysmally low

If it was balanced to a point where the PLD was practicially self sufficient and it would allow the healer to DPS it might not be so bad.

But it opens a different can of worms in that your potential DPS contribution is now solely in the hands of the healer.

Now it's up to the healer to decide if they want to be as they would say: "a dps with some healing responsibilities"
or they want to live to only heal because "they're a healer."

You get problems where a PLD is now probably stuck in a dungeon with a healer with his/her thumb up their {rear} watching netflix or something and all the PLD can do is make damage non existent and hope atleast the other two DPS are confident because his contributions are being squandered by the 'healer'.

Or the whole solo tank shish kebob that was prevalent in SCoB where one of the tank slots was replaced by a DPS because the main tank could handle everything. Devalueing tanks and making them feel less needed then they should.

Originally Posted by FallenWings

You get problems where a PLD is now probably stuck in a dungeon with a healer with his/her thumb up their {rear} watching netflix or something and all the PLD can do is make damage non existent and hope atleast the other two DPS are confident because his contributions are being squandered by the 'healer'.

In dungeons I don't think it would be that bad. Especially since I imagined PLD could trade its damage for mitigation progressively. So, you could stick to the "usual" mitigation in 4-man group, and stack up the real turtle shield in 8-man.

To sum up, I posted an idea where PLD would have a skill working a little like Enochian. He would spend half its MP pool to put a buff on Shield Oath (-10% damage taken, -10% damage dealt, +1 enmity multiplier), for a set duration. And each time you cast it again, you'll gain another stack and you refresh the duration with a 5 seconds penalty. So your highest mitigation would depend on how you manage your MP until you have no choice but to let it wear off.

Originally Posted by FallenWings

Devalueing tanks and making them feel less needed then they should.

This is not an issue. If you have two tanks beside PLD, bring them. It would just be another setup. Tank damage would just need to be balance so that 2 tanks + 2 healers + 4 DPS deals roughly the same as 1 PLD + 2 healers + 5 DPS. Or 1 PLD + 1 DPS = 2 tanks