Live Letter XXX Discussion Thread

[Yukiko]

hm... something i miss in this discussion:
Why does it hurt you when players actually can complete something?
Why you will not allow players to reach the 7th floor?
If everyone having the best of the best gear, why exactly does it hurt you?!

It doesnt change anything!
Everyone done same as you did...
If its too easy or too hard thats anohter question but its not the point here with RNG because ... well its RNG ?!

[Nezerius]

hm... something i miss in this discussion:
Why does it hurt you when players actually can complete something?
Why you will not allow players to reach the 7th floor?
If everyone having the best of the best gear, why exactly does it hurt you?!

It doesnt change anything!
Everyone done same as you did...
If its too easy or too hard thats anohter question but its not the point here with RNG because ... well its RNG ?!

Are you really gonna dig up this discussion again? It's been beaten to death by now.
But I'll answer the underlined part in your post, and keep it at that. It's because the reward is designed around the fact that you don't reach the 7th room all the time.

Now onto the subject that hasn't been discussed to death yet, Nidhogg.

I'm not really sure if we'll see a human form phase, I think it'll mostly be a two phase fight; with the first phase in his normal dragon form, and the second phase in that ifrit-like supercharged dragon form:

Perhaps that big AoE from the Aery, when the party gets shielded by Estinien, will come back as the phase transition, though this time requiring a time based thing (like the adds on Sephirot), or just a tank LB2/3 (would be nice to see that get some use, similar to T13's usage of tank LB2/3)

And since it's a dragon, probably a divebomb somewhere in the fight.

[Yukiko]

It's because the reward is designed around the fact that you don't reach the 7th room all the time.

And thats where you are WRONG.
You can not "design" RNG outcome, thats why we have RNG (when used correctly).
Did you sleep the whole discussion?

While one gets every time the correct door, the other never gets.. there is a movie with that topic (Unbreakable)..


To "design" a "not everytime reaching floor7" you should not use RNG because thats misusing it, RNG is to make somethng unpredictable and not to delay things!

[Lambdafish]

And thats where you are WRONG.

In this case I think that the "designed" RNG is perfectly fine (if maybe a little bit too harsh, though they toned it back from what it was for that reason). This is nothing like atma, and there is no "progression" involved with the aquapolis. Think of it like jumbo cacpot rather than atma, you get your regular reward from the dragonskin map, "oh hey, a chance for greater rewards", get more loot, and the luckier you get the more loot you can gain, much like winning the lottery. Reaching floor 7 isn't the goal, gathering as much loot as possible before luck boots you out is the goal, every chest opened is a lucky bonus from the initial map.

[Yukiko]

Doing maps daily, finally after months you get a portal, ohhh wait 10 minutes to gather some friends, but they are sleeping -> lets get some strangers... party time, after 9 minutes hurry to enter, first floor clear within some minutes then the wrong door and ohh sorry but thanks for helping... and maybe the strangers stealing all loot...

Can guarantee you within 4 weeks no one will ever do those portals again even when they spawn!

Edit: The reference with atma in the picture was "one gets it every time while the other does not"...

Edit2:
Ifrit choose to attack from 8 possible targets -> RNG used correctly
Crafter max level with using all skills and best in slot but failing in low level crafts -> RNG used wrong

Edit3: Well, no one ever said RNG is not needed -> we say it needs a net to backup extreme outcomes, every programmer can tell you about RNGs

Crap, again Edit4 - sorry its the last:
What I ment with correct use of RNG is that if you design the "outcome", you need to ask the question if it is important to "know" the outcome and what comes next.
As crafter you target something -> the outcome is important because it influence the following actions (losing materials) => not using RNG
If Ifrit attacks player A, B or C -> the outcome is not important because the following action doesnt change (needs to be healed) => using RNG
Choosing Loot from a pool of possibilities -> outcome is not important because you can influence the "possibilities" => using RNG (well, thats not what we have here in FFXIV)
Getting Loot, yes or no -> outcome is important because again the player is targeting something => not using RNG

[NaesakiAshwell]

Doing maps daily, finally after months you get a portal

With a 50% chance for the portal to appear, to only get in after a months. That would be some of the unluckiest RNG in the world.

Also considering you need at least 2 people with you to beat the dragonskin maps you aren't just gonna randomly tackle it alone and they've stated its going to be tuned to doing it 4 people but will be potentially possible with 2 and you can take 8 people if you truly desire to.

Then a 50% chance to keep progressing.

There is nothing wrong with the RNG implementation for this treasure dungeon.

There is only so much you can do to RNG.

[Yukiko]

With a 50% chance for the portal to appear, to only get in after a months. That would be some of the unluckiest RNG in the world.
Then a 50% chance to keep progressing.
There is nothing wrong with the RNG implementation for this treasure dungeon.
There is also so much you can do to RNG.

We will see, remember the 98% crafts and BOOF failure 8 times in a row...

[NaesakiAshwell]

We will see, remember the 98% crafts and BOOF failure 8 times in a row...

Thats just the nature of the RNG, you are literally complaining about something that is fundamentally very abstract.

The statistics are extremely low of that instance occurring but it is still statistically possible.

The whole treasure dungeon is supposed to be an extra bonus and maybe you'll get some additional goodies.

[Yukiko]

Thats just the nature of the RNG, you are literally complaining about something that is fundamentally very abstract.
The statistics are extremely low of that instance occurring but it is still statistically possible.

Not sure if you are a crafter, but well... in FFXIV its happening A LOT

[MomomiMomi]

Not sure if you are a crafter, but well... in FFXIV its happening A LOT

I'm a crafter. Nope. Have never seen it.