we need a sword dps

[MrsFluffyButt]

Personally, I feel we need another Blunt dmg dps.

Mace users please.

Next 'Blunt' melee should be a tank. Either a mace or two handed hammer, just make it a tank.

[Ultimatecalibur]

On the DPS side... they've done a fantastic job. Why doubt them on Tank and Healers? Hell, if you want to argue about the most optimal composition for DPS raiding its actually 2 Mch's, 1 Nin, 1 Drg. But we don't see that, like at all.

Due to how each DpS class synergizes with the other DpS classes there are multiple viable dps raid party compositions, pretty much every dps job is in multiple of them and no one job is in all of them. One of the problems that tanks have is that only Warrior is viable in each and every tank composition it is in. Warrior + Dark Knight is optimal, Warrior + Paladin is viable, Dark Knight + Paladin is not viable because of lack of the Slash resist debuff from Storm's Eye or Dancing Edge. Sure you could have a Ninja be one of the dps in a Dark Knight + Paladin comp, but Warrior + Dark Knight/Paladin + Ninja is more optimal.

So unless there is a way for the Dark Knight/Paladin comp to get the Slashing debuff without the whole comp being more optimal by replacing either tank with a Warrior, adding a 4th tank will not fix the problems that give Warrior a guaranteed raid slot.

This isn't the only reason SCH is so viable.. the noct AST shields are actually stronger then SCH shields if not crited. Its all the utilty it brings, being able to spread a single target shield onto the whole party + burst heals + pet healer + highly sustained DPS while keeping HPS up.

Deployment Tactics is what makes Scholar shields stronger than Noct shields. A Noct Astro can't completely nullify most of the raid wide damage in the first 20 seconds of the fight by throwing out a 390 to 1296 potency shield at the start of the fight. The rest of the two jobs kits are pretty comparable with the scholar's dps being roughly equal to the party dps increase from the Astro's cards.

Its the same for WAR. WAR isn't only viable for its 2 debuffs or DPS, its actually very close to DRK DPS. What WAR does great is its self sustain on top of all its utility, having one of the most on demand mitigation skills in the game on top of its ability synergy.

If the Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge debuff is not factored in Warrior Dark Knight and Paladin dps are pretty close together now. The Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge debuff increases all three tanks damage by about 10%

Your literally describing WAR as a DPS. Also 2 DPS? This is shooting the tank population in the foot.

Applying the same debuffs does not make to jobs the same. If the Samurai used combos to generate stacks and then used those stacks to perform special attack they would be similar.

Also I never said that they should only release SAM and RDM together or released without any other classes (one of which could be a tank) I only said I'd rather see the Samurai as a DpS that would be more viable in non-Warrior comps and added that I'd like Red Mages to use bucklers.

[Morningstar1337]

Also I never said that they should only release SAM and RDM together or released without any other classes (one of which could be a tank) I only said I'd rather see the Samurai as a DpS that would be more viable in non-Warrior comps and added that I'd like Red Mages to use bucklers.

That's impatience for you, you assume that two classes are set to be released ASAP and then work off of that assumption. And then you find out that people don't factor in the assumption and well...you know what they say about assumptions right?

As fir a DPS that is more Viable in Non WAR comps. I can barely fathom the amount of Hoops that will take. Though having a Tank with Piercing/Magic/Blunt damage would be a start/

RDM? So long as they have access to Black and White Magic (and one each of the Elemental spells), then i don't care what weapon they use (Though I like rapiers, I'm unsure how well they would work with bucklers and that combination would probably make them PLD lite)

[ADVSS]

That's impatience for you, you assume that two classes are set to be released ASAP and then work off of that assumption. And then you find out that people don't factor in the assumption and well...you know what they say about assumptions right?

As fir a DPS that is more Viable in Non WAR comps. I can barely fathom the amount of Hoops that will take. Though having a Tank with Piercing/Magic/Blunt damage would be a start/

RDM? So long as they have access to Black and White Magic (and one of the Elemental spells), then i don't care what weapon they use (Though I like rapiers, I'm unsure how well they would work with bucklers and that combination would probably make them PLD lite)

cant agree more: id pick dps as it allows the most flexibility for things like casting spells and melee. I sort of would like to see a combination of both either as required for peak perfomance or optional given the situation (cast aoe spells from a distance, deal single target damage up close) I know a lot of people want rdm to tank but i feel like itd take away from the experience of being a melee with black and white magic casting abilities. SMN got raise as a dps as one of its supports, i dont see why rdm couldnt have a burst heal at some cost, to add to the white magic aspect of it(maybe a regen on a long cd) and maintain the other aspects as well as its core concept. balance its damage to be closer to the support dps and ninja, and it make sense to me how it could fit without being underwhelming or op

[Ultimatecalibur]

As fir a DPS that is more Viable in Non WAR comps. I can barely fathom the amount of Hoops that will take.

Not very many really. It would only take a dps class whose optimal dps rotation applies a non-stacking -10% slash resist debuff (i.e. Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge) even if there is someone else to apply a version of the debuff.

Though having a Tank with Piercing/Magic/Blunt damage would be a start/

Just adding one tank that didn't deal slashing wouldn't change much. We would just end up with Warrior + Dark Knight/Paladin/New Tank (a be force to take an appropriate dps if the New tank doesn't apply its own debuff). This would make 75% of the tank comps non-viable.

You would need to have at least two tanks with the same damage type with one applying a Piercing/Magic/Blunt debuff and this would still have problems as the viable comps would be Warrior + Dark Knight/Paladin/New Debuff Tank/New non-Debuff Tank (+appropriate dps) and New Debuff Tank + New non-Debuff Tank/Dark Knight (+appropriate dps)/Paladin (+appropriate dps). Only 40% of tank pairings would be viable.

RDM? So long as they have access to Black and White Magic (and one of the Elemental spells), then i don't care what weapon they use (Though I like rapiers, I'm unsure how well they would work with bucklers and that combination would probably make them PLD lite)

I wouldn't say the Red Mage needs either Black or White magic, but that it needs a combination of physical combat abilities, offensive magic abilities and defensive/recovery magic abilities.

[Katana190]

Snip.

Okay... you make good points, don't get me wrong. But your seriously underestimating SE's balancing, yes its been bad in the past... yes its still not currently perfect, I mean which MMO has a PERFECT class balance?
I'll get to the point, what I would like too see in a new tank is indeed the slashing debuff.. right. This alone won't solve the balancing issue... the new tank job has to be designed in such a way to make it on par with WAR. But... its already been somewhat done, DRK and PLD are at a very equal ground and are both quite viable, while DRK offers more raid damage overall, PLD offers a lot more raid utility (Although PLD played aggressively can do some nasty DPS, Source : See FFlogs...). If your missing a MNK then DRK is something you might want to consider.. if you have a MNK then PLD is something you might want to consider. This creates a DPS to Tank, Tank to Tank synergy. Now I'm no game designer but don't you think the possibility of this new tank being designed in such a way that so it works the same as DRK and PLD? I think its well within reason.

[Gemina]

I think most people would be happy with a DPS RDM with strong healing support. Utilizing TP and MP respectively. Being able to rezz and restore hit points when the pressure gets heavy on the main healer much like the ACN class minus pet. That's probably the simplest approach to the job. I think it gets tricky when it comes to balancing casting/melee versions of their DPS.

Personally, I like the idea of them being able to wear leather armor, and use rapiers and bucklers, and with this kind of set up I suppose it only makes sense that I would happiest with a DPS RDM, even though I want to heal with this job. I just don't want it to be a tank.

[Brian_]

Unless Samurai is a tank and Red Mage is a healer...

I'd actually be surprised if this didn't happen. Samurai as a tank and Red Mage as a healer just fit too well within this game, within the current balance of classes, and within the precedents that SE has set.

[ADVSS]

either that or two new tanks to try to shift the meta, i really dont see them doing this(but ive seen a lot of good ideas from posters on how they could make it work), i think the rest of the community would be confused and especially healers might be a bit upset if they did

[Bulwyf]

I'd actually be surprised if this didn't happen. Samurai as a tank and Red Mage as a healer just fit too well within this game, within the current balance of classes, and within the precedents that SE has set.

I disagree. We have no sword dps and no magic based tank. Samurai as DPS and Red Mage as tank fits both those needs.