Make normal primal encounters more relevant to the extreme versions

[Destous]

One fight does not make a trend.

It's true for BisEx.
It's true for RavEx.
It's extremely true for ThorEx.
It's true for SephEx.

BisEx is the least severe, I'll give you that. However, every extreme encounter after it barely relates to the normal mode.

[LucentLagombi]

This should be the same for everything including raids. This way people can train on boss mechanics on a forgiving environment. Extreme/Savage should just be about more damage done and 1 hit kill mechanics. The problem now is that its too difficult to "learn" a fight.

That would take away a large draw to raids for the raiding communtiy. Why would you even bother when a lot of the point of doing the raids is to learn a new and fun fight with new mechanics and design. If you go in already knowing the mechanics then progression would just be rapid and boring. We already saw what that's like with just alexander and the uproar on lore and art already. If people aren't happy with similarities in just the look of the fights what makes you think identical fights would be good for the game?

[DukeGr]

snip

In a sense that may be true but at the moment hard content in this game is experienced by only a small fraction of the playerbase. By allowing people that desire to learn and become better, without making the process itself almost impossible for people that are either late to join the "learning groups" when content is released or just don't have so much time to dedicate to a static, you will see a much higher participation percentage for the "hard content".

Take for example Thordan Extreme, no one does learning groups anymore and people farming it require experience and clears. It's impossible to attempt a clear via Duty Finder and unless you are in an FC with people that want to help it's impossible to get a clear. Now if the Normal Thordan fight had the same mechanics and you could clear it multiple times to learn how it works, the transition to attempt the extreme fight would be 100 times easier.

[Destous]

Take for example Thordan Extreme, no one does learning groups anymore and people farming it require experience and clears. It's impossible to attempt a clear via Duty Finder and unless you are in an FC with people that want to help it's impossible to get a clear. Now if the Normal Thordan fight had the same mechanics and you could clear it multiple times to learn how it works, the transition to attempt the extreme fight would be 100 times easier.

This exactly. It's crazy to me that naysayers to making extreme content more accessible/more streamlined to learn isn't seen as a sense of elitism, yet having a built in meter is seen as elitism.

[Ekimmak]

I don't see it as much of a problem, with the exception of Shiva Extreme, where being too used to that mode can be detrimental in normal (I'm looking at you, Sword stance party soak!).

You pick up the basics in the normal mode, extreme just throws a few extra wrenches into the situation. Although I will agree that there needs to be a better branch between current Expert content and current Extreme/Savage content.

[Nestama]

SE are releasing a thing to learn phases to fights, right? Was it just for Alexander, or Extreme Trials as well?

[Deathgiver]

I'm confused by this thread... Seph ex introduced I think 3 new mechanics (tethers, force of might/magic and the arena puddle things), made a few mechanics slightly harder (no aoe indicator for ysod, double stack for jump attack, cochma gives magic debuff) and other than that just changed up the rotation and damage output. All the mechanics from normal mode work the same. For the most part Thordan ex follows the same formula, you just get fewer visual indicators for the attacks, or they are compounded.

[AnimaAnimus]

Most the ex primals are just slight changes and steps up in difficulty with only a couple new things thrown in to make it interesting.

Hard modes are fine preps for ex versions. It's not the fights that need changed, it's the mindset.

[Destous]

Most the ex primals are just slight changes and steps up in difficulty with only a couple new things thrown in to make it interesting.

Hard modes are fine preps for ex versions. It's not the fights that need changed, it's the mindset.

BisEx and RavEx keep the same phase pattern, but with extra mechanics and variations thrown into them.
ThorEx is a completely different fight from regular Thordan.
SephEx phases 1 and 2 (where nearly all the learning parties fail the most) are completely different from normal Sephirot.

You'd have to be highly disingenuous to say what you said.

[Venaire6]

To be honest, I think extreme modes are only there for people who want a good challenge. We are given a choice to either just do hard modes or go further into content and challenge our learning capabilities in extreme. These people must be determined to use their fundamental knowledge from normal mode and try to apply it into extreme mode while anticipating for different ways from normal that each phase may go. If you're a new player with little experience with extreme/savage modes, at least watch a video before going in blind. If you think about it, the normal modes do have some sort of semblance to extreme mode, it's just a few tweaks and harsher conditions, and that is what makes it fun. Don't forget, there are some people out there who are willing to help new players in extreme mode clears. It took me less than a week to learn Sephirot ex since I made it a habit to memorize every phase. Same with Thordan.