Can we have option to VK a player because they are below a reasonable skill level?

[Seraphix2407]

[QUOTE=MeiUshu;3704217]...

I can safely say I have never ever told a player to change their playstyle because I dont like how they play, at most I have asked them for a specific reason for a specific boss if they could not not use a specific skill ,if they dont want to no problem, life goes on as usual.

Well first of all thanks for being honest and I'm sorry if my post came off a bit aggresive towards you which wasn't intended.

I'm not gonna tell someone to change their playstyle because it's my fit, I'm simply giving them a hand because I feel they should somewhat get a understanding in the class they are playing. If the person is willing to accept, awesome, if not then I move on, just as you do!
I wont force people to play how a class is ''suposed'' to be played. If people wanna speed run low dungeons they aren't the smartest guy in class, first of all speed runs happens usually when people have strong aoes and what not. I NEVER speed run low level roulettes because I know it will end bad and honestly never seen anyone try it either, so must be a thing on your data center I guess.

I would never kick a person if they were ''bad'' in my dungeon, which happens a lot in vault when I was there as tank or healer. Healer not being avaible to heal enough and then again it can happen dps or tank doesn't even do mechanics and dies in them. When I was a healer, the dps constantly died to not doing mechanics. We still did clear it, but was it optimized? Not really, then again I was just okay with doing it, however, I would like people to pay a bit more attention than being in their own little world. Only times I would kick people is either afk, bot or trolling. If a person admit they wanna play at troll level, aka icemage and they happen to be on my server, I blacklist then move on. Why? Becuse he has NO respect for people around him. Respect goes both ways, and tbh I'm not even doubting 1 second how you are around people, but you should know they should respect you as well and not you respecting them for being in denial. So kudos to you.

I still don't find it acceptable that they wanna play however they want, but I still tag along and do it. Sadly that's how the world has turn into. It's like what this guy wrote once

There is a room of 10 people and 9 of those people loves pancakes, but the last guy doesn't. So to make him feel better those 9 people has to stop eat pancakes so he doesn't feel offended.

To make it short, respect is lacking alot in the community much as you mention people don't respect people who play how they want. However the way they play isn't excactly the best example of respect either. It goes both ways not 1 way And I'm pretty sure you and I agree on that one.

[MeiUshu]

[QUOTE=Seraphix2407;3704252][QUOTE=MeiUshu;3704217]...
QUOTE]

but is not my job to tell them to, is no ones business to tell them anything really. I respect there choice, now if they ask I MAY give my OPINION, but no way forcing on them my vision. This is to me respecting the other.. I dont care if I have to run stuff a million times, I dont care if I have to start over a million times, do I consider it a lack of respect for me ? no..why ? they didnt do anything to me personally they just arent ready or I am not ready for something.

Vote kicking someone is just the anti thesis of what groups should be meant for, you are a person and you can leave...of course the penalty is wrong as I have explained already too but we are all free to decided by ourselves what suits us or not and if it doesnt suits us we go elsewhere NOT the others but you as a person. This is being respecful in my opinion.

[Atoli]

Actually, SE has confirmed before that it is 100% okay to kick people if they're not playing the way you want them too.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...28#post2358628

Actually, the responses in this thread say pretty much the exact opposite, in that it is NOT okay to kick people for not fulfilling your expectations.
It's appearently only okay when they are ACTIVELY holding you back, as in a healer refusing to heal and so on, NOT a healer who does his job but does it badly.

Which is why I'm 100% against the additional VK option the OP suggested. That would make what is actually abuse okay in SE's books, and I'm totally not fine with it being considered acceptable to just kick a player because he does not live up to the insane standards some players have.

[MeiUshu]

.

that reaction is exactly what a toxic community is. You can leave nobody holds you back from doing it as opposed to kick people.

[Laerune]

But how can we define reasonable? The topic for recent discussion have been about the role of the healer. Some players think a healer should contribute with doing DPS and others are saying that aslong as the party is fully healed, the healer is doing its job.

For example: Bob has been a healer for the past few years Bob has only healed and only did some DPS when he thinks his teammates will not die so fast. Bob joins a dungeon run and meets Tank A, DPS C end D. The Tank A finds that the party is not progressing as fast, Tank A sees that Bob is not doing as much dps as his other healers did in the past. Bob gets kicked for playing below reasonable skill level.

This little story shows that reasonable skill level is seen different among playes, some players see a healer playing reasonably when they keep everyone alive, others think that healers need do a certain % of damage per second. Aslong as we can not find a line of what reasonable skill level is, I do not think SE sould add such a option.

I do wonder though, cant you already kick someone for playing below reasonable skill level? Last time I checked, aslong as the majority thinks someone has a playstyle that they dislike they can kick him or her out.

[Lunavi]

My view point is that players should not be punished - forced to use PF - for playing the game optimally and wanting their team to do the same. Hopping in DF and expecting others to do your job is basically passive griefing. DF means to avoid that are in this state really pitiful - you can vote kick them, leave, or vote abandon. Vote kicking just sends the player to a different group to cause harm while wasting group's time waiting for a new member, leaving gives you penalty and abandoning is also kind of penalty. Some way to avoid being matched with the player in the first place would be much better solution.

No one punishes you for playing the game optimally, nor wanting top tier players. However, SE can't do the impossible. What you ask for is a system that pairs you up with people with equal skill level to yourself all the time. Note that I do not say equal or above, because with your mindset you should not waste the time of people who are more skilled than yourself. With this system queuetimes could get ridiculously high, maybe even tanks like yourself would get to taste some queuetime?

You seem unable to grasp the purpose DF and PF respectively exists to serve in the game. DF is there to make you and any other player able to quickly (oh well, relatively) and without much hazzle enter a dungeon group on the go to finish the stuff they need to finih. This is also why the duty roulette was created to keep old and skilled players in outdated content so that players wouldn't be faced with 300+ minute queuetimes (yes, I saw that in 2.0 before the Daily Roulette system was created) while PF is meant to be used as a tool to find players with a specific playstyle and skill-level to run content with. You would save yourself and many other much frustraition if you started to use these systems as they were intended to be used and respect that other people do likewise. Heck, back when I played in 2.1-2.2 it wasn't uncommon at all that people used PF to create SR tomefarm parties and I doubt that is a practice that have died out (capping weekly tomes in about an hour was awesome I can tell you).

There is one solution to all of your problem, and I repeat, DO NOT USE DUTY FINDER!

[AnaviAnael]

To whoever said that we MUST call out who plays *bad*, in virtue of what woudl you do so ? who are you to do so ? who gave you this power ? you just think that you have all the rights just because you can play or supposedly play, again what does the next person knows about you that you are soooo grand good and godly to allow yourself to call another bad ? again nothing forces you and nobody asks you to...you just decided to take that up with yourself and do it, even Mentors dont know most of the time how a class works and just because they have a crow they think they can call out others and often then not with stupid advices.

Who am I? I'm a person who enjoys helping people. I like seeing people improve.

[Alistaire]

Bottom line is SE's already said "different play styles" (the polite way to say this exact thing) is a valid reason, so it might as well already be there. As it is, I just use the "harassment" option.

[SDaemon]

Bottom line is SE's already said "different play styles" (the polite way to say this exact thing) is a valid reason.

They've also said that it is left up to the GM's discretion if you were correct or not. Just because you kick someone and feel its valid doesn't mean the GM investigating does. People act as if SE has never held anyone responsible for vote kick abuse.

[Archaell]

There is one solution to all of your problem, and I repeat, DO NOT USE DUTY FINDER!

I am trying to avoid it as much as possible - don't worry!

The main purpose of Duty Finder is to find people beyond your server to do content with. Even it's current state could be changed, at least theoretically. Imagine that starting tomorrow it would be place only for the experience people. It is not likely, but the tiny possibility exists.

Being matched with players of equal skill sounds nice, but you are right - not so plausible due to size of the playerbase. Nobody wants that tho. The main issue with these topics is that posters try to push things to extreme. Nobody wants the more serious roulette to be place only for people who can do 95% of their job's potential. 80% would be more than enough as long as they try to improve. I can tell you that there are people who do less than 50%, which makes it clear they do other things while playing the game. Why should we be stuck carrying them for their own selfish needs? In team based game it is natural to expect the whole team to be commited to the goal - which in this case is making the duty as smooth and quick as possible so that we can enjoy the parts of the game which are fun.