Can we have option to VK a player because they are below a reasonable skill level?

[Fynlar]

It's difficult to define "reasonable". What is reasonable for someone might be being able to speed run through a dungeon, while for another person reasonable might be simply being able to clear it.

Reasonable means just being able to clear it. Expecting speed runs out of everyone means you are not accounting for the fact that there are players new to content, and that is pretty unquestionably unreasonable even just on the basis that they were all newbs once too.

I can understand the frustration of not being able to finish a dungeon because one player is not pulling their own weight or geared appropriately, but to play devil's advocate, why is it that the healer should be the one to leave so you can finish the dungeon? I understand they were not skilled / geared well enough to heal everyone, but why does it mean they should be required to leave?

Because it's not fair (or respectful) for one incapable person to hold back three/seven capable ones?

Boy, that was easy.

[Zojha]

Reasonable means just being able to clear it. Expecting speed runs out of everyone means you are not accounting for the fact that there are players new to content, and that is pretty unquestionably unreasonable even just on the basis that they were all newbs once too.

In which case, they will reason that there are multiple guides and videos out there to learn extensively before you queue up and that everyone should do just that because otherwise they're holding people back. Which is considered a reasonable argument and in fact already expected for endgame content.
And if it's the gear holding the group back, crafted items are easy to get, so that's naturally no excuse either.
Moreover, especially as DPS, clearly reasonable does not merely mean to clear the content, if you go by any of the popular parser threads.

I get the feeling reasonable is fairly subjective and dependent on how much effort you expect your teammates to put into a video game.

[Aldora]

Reasonable means just being able to clear it. Expecting speed runs out of everyone means you are not accounting for the fact that there are players new to content, and that is pretty unquestionably unreasonable even just on the basis that they were all newbs once too.

Thank you. Those are my thoughts exactly. Next to the fact that the people who you are paired up with in that instance might be new/inexperienced with the content, there are also people who are not as good as the “Top Tier Raiders/Players”. But, that doesn’t mean they can’t get the job done.

As long as people are willing to cooperate with each other in order to clear said content, then that should be enough.

I know that people want to clear content as fast as they can, which is perfectly fine. But, if you notice that not every member of the party can keep up with the pace that’s being set, the first thing we should have to consider is to take it down a notch so that the entire team makes is through to the end. As a group/party/team. Not simply bash them for not being “good enough”, followed by kicking them from the group.

However, there are a few things though:

• If you don’t know what the mechanics of an encounter are, ask your party for info. There is no shame in asking. There’s only shame in ignoring their questions, or refusing to reply.
• If you see people struggle, lend them a hand. Don’t outright vote kick them without trying to help.
• If a healer is struggling to keep the party alive, please do your utmost best to avoid getting damage. (As in, don’t stand in AoE’s and perhaps pull less)
• If the party is struggling to meet the dps requirement to burn a boss down, then please… For the love of the Twelve, don’t ignore mechanics…
• If a tank is struggling to keep hate, please try to focus your damage on the same monster the tank is focussing on. (During most parties, I see each dps class single target other monsters within the pack, instead of focussing on 1 specific monster and burning it down) In some cases, you’d want to pull your punches to let the tank generate some hate, instead of jumping into the fray while the tank is still trying to generate some base Enmity on the pack.

I’m not sure if others will agree with me, but whenever i look around (both in-game as well as irl), it seems that “Patience” is starting to become a “luxury item” which (apparently) people can’t afford anymore.

[Seraphix2407]

[LIST]

I like the list.

There is 1 dungeon that I find healers struggle a lot and that's Vault. The last boss seen countless of people struggle and times where I've been stuck on it for almost 20-30 min because the healer dies trying to heal or simply because they cant heal us enough even if we dodge every aoe. In fact I lvled my pld and whm to 60 recently and healing it was also a pain in the ass, not that I struggled, I can adapt easily to fights like these. But I can understand some healers having a hard time, simply because tanks or dps doesn't avoid aoe in that last boss, or second where they eat debuff stacks all the time XD.

It's better to tell the healers what to do rather than kick them. I rather kill the boss with the same healer we had through out the dungeon and give him/her the feeling of great achivement healing the vault! I know many aren't perfect, neither am I, and as few people mentioned, you have to always adapt to new people.

Patience is extremely importent, because you, me and everyone else been new to something. What I do dislikes are people who I know and seen the same dungeons plenty of times but still can't do it, being dead weight is another story. If you are new to the class in that spesific dungeon, I'm more than willing to stay, which I have done endless of times, last boss in aery and vault seem to be healers nightmare , which I think is great, since that's how they have to learn anyways.

[FinaSel]

Because it's not fair (or respectful) for one incapable person to hold back three/seven capable ones?

Boy, that was easy.

Is it just me, or does this reply sound unnecessarily hostile?

In any event, I would like to know what the reason for the healer's poor performance was and what dungeon it was. All we know is that it was a "leveling dungeon", so the healer was likely still learning.
If the issue was being inappropriately geared, then it's not only completely the healer's fault, but there isn't really any way to fix that once in the dungeon.

If it is just a poor performance issue in a leveling dungeon, there is a good chance this healer is not used to their job yet. I do not think it is "disrespectful" for someone in a leveling dungeon to hold back other because they are still in the process of learning their job. (Unless they are doing it on purpose.)


To illustrate, I was once in a leveling dungeon with a BLM who, although having several other jobs at 60, was still learning how to play BLM. I quickly noticed he was only using Blizzard at first.
I explained the basic BLM rotation to him and he said he understood. Despite this, he still couldn't do it correctly.
So, I tried explaining it again and giving him advice after each set of trash. I think I gave him advice on his spell usage at least 5 times throughout the dungeon.

Of course, this player was clearly performing poorly and holding everyone else back, which in no way was disrespectful. He just didn't know. But I would never have kicked him or suggested he leave unless by the end of the dungeon he hadn't made any attempt to take my advice. By watching his actions and giving advice, he was able to improve throughout the dungeon and, at the end, performed like a star. I'm sure that he will continue to do well in future dungeons. Had we kicked him, he may still be struggling even now, as no one in any of the previous dungeons he was in took the time to give him any advice on how to play BLM.