Unchained. Seriously, why are we not abusing this skill?

[FallenWings]

Its painfully obvious that people arnt thinking past the skills use . Or factoring the fact that at minimum there are 3 others in the group 2 of whitch will hit faster and more frequently then the tank and one who will draw 360degree casting aggro also more frequently then a combo compleation . Being the tank does not mean ur the only aggro generator . In that aspect the cooldown alone sets the skill space better used for a shield rather then attempting a 1 off 20 sec to do a grand total of regular dps damage which amounts to next to nothing looking at the enemies life bar if its not a add . Theres a percent sighn there ppl if its 100% of 25 thats just a extra 25 not some crazy high number fighting fates and regular world knock urself out thats a hudge difference but dungons are a different story.Dont think it will be the same it wont.

You severely underestimate tank and by extension healer DPS. You really need to read the skills on all the tank classes as well as study up on the current design of the game as seen by the community. Once you can add 1 and 1 together perhaps your opinion will be changed... for the better.

[StouterTaru]

At yet another simple thing but wait overpower spamming put tp management in the crapper and flash from a non pld ull get 4 at best then have to wait on mp and in that time u just wasted ur mp and tp ur still waiting on the skill to cooldown oh wait the second u stopped spamming those the healer and blm are dead ooops lost the aggro there but steel cyclone no wrath . Craaaappp.

If you use overpower spam in defiance until your are out of TP, you can get up and use the restroom without any concern about losing hate while gone. In defiance, overpower gives hate equal to 10x the amount of damage you do.

That's more hate from just one overpower than a comparably summoner generates from Raging Strikes + Painflare, without Unchained or Berserk factored in.

[SorceressVal]

If u must know this is a escond account mr stout also i have run pld war and drk to 50 pld and war to 50 when the level cap was 50 and 2 times to 50 on this account as for hard differences between 50 and 60 none noteable the synch effect makes that pointless to debate . Mr stout . I dont think in terms of there only being me on the field i take into consideration that even with 3 others present one tank should under no senceable reason ever lose aggro. The tools to do so are present. The skill is great to use outside a situation where you are expected to do ur job as a tank but then again thats what sepporates accual good ones from the ones who give themselves a peptalk after wiping a group

[StouterTaru]

The skill is great to use outside a situation where you are expected to do ur job as a tank

No, it's not. If you are not tanking, you should not be in defiance, which makes unchained unavailable to you.

If you are tanking, then using unchained does more damage and generates more hate than using your wrath on anything else.

ps - I have 4 characters with level 60 Warrior

[JackFross]

The bottom line is that SorceressVal is completely misconstruing the argument and question. The initial post made no mention at all ever about trash pulls, because nobody gives a shit about how trash pulls are handled.

This thread is a discussion of Unchained being used on the pull in a boss encounter with two tanks. Every point raised by Val is completely meaningless and wildly off-base. You're taking the question and applying it to a situation where it actually becomes more of a grey area since then you compare Steel Cyclone to Unchained... but then that's still CLEARLY favoring Overpower.

With enmity multipliers, Overpower and Steel Cyclone generate the same amount of aggro. With Defiance's damage penalty, Overpower generates 75% of the enmity of a single Steel Cyclone. If you turn Unchained on, you'll get that 25% back on every Overpower hit - after just 4 shots out of your 8-9 gcds under Unchained, you've now eclipsed the aggro benefit of pressing Steel Cyclone.

So stop making a moot argument, please and thank you.

Several people gave actually reasonable and realistic arguments for why people don't do the Unchained > Provoke opener earlier in the thread. These ideas can be broken down as follows:

1. People have the "MT" and "OT" roles deeply ingrained. Pulling as the "OT" is just weird, so people don't do it.
2. It's a JP strat to maximize initial enmity by pulling with WAR in Unchained and provoking the real tank in - they have a different approach to raiding and team design than NA/EU (which is where we're discussing this right now, on the EN forums).
3. Nobody ever really thinks about how to maximize the pull, because people are more concerned with just clearing fights and the undeniable raid DPS increase afforded by this strategy is just not important to a group focused on mechanic execution.


ALSO.

In what world is a 20s cooldown a SHORT duration!? There are only TWO cooldowns (not stance stuff) which last LONGER than 20s that I can think of in the entire game. Awareness lasts for 25s and Fight or Flight has a 30s duration. Everything else is 10-15-20 with very very little elsewhere.

And I need to address the other major fallacy you're mentioning: how the heck are you only hitting 4 skills in 20s? Are you just not pressing buttons? If that's the case, your argument loses all credibility, because you're not even performing at the base level. Do you just not use Dreadwyrm Trance because you'll only get 2 casts in so it's a waste of time because you just many times stand around with your thumb up your butt doing absolutely nothing? I'm very confused by all this and would like an explanation.

[Kitfox]

2. It's a JP strat to maximize initial enmity by pulling with WAR in Unchained and provoking the real tank in - they have a different approach to raiding and team design than NA/EU (which is where we're discussing this right now, on the EN forums).

To derail this into a more pleasant direction, where can I read up more on this JP approach?

[JackFross]

Not sure. Everyone just always tells me it's "JP Strats" - and friends I have who have come to my server from the JP data center say the same thing. They're sometimes a bit confused as to why we make the DRK/PLD just pull straight up instead of having the WAR do unchained to pull.

[Syhrwyb]

gibberish

I don't even know what the hell this person is talking about.

[AaronHughes]

A5-7 savage can be done without using tank stance thanks to unchained and that's some of the hardest content in the game. Tanks regularly output 1000-1300 DPS even while handling mechanics. I can see how some people may be against the idea if they aren't overgeared for the fight but let me give you an example of why you may want to push for dps even in a mechanic-oriented group. A6s Blaster: Immediately after the first set of mirages, if Blaster isn't under 50% he will do two back to back tank busters which hurt even if you use a cooldown. Let's say your group plays it really safe during the dashes, ensuring nobody gets hit. Well this safe play results in blaster still being at 55% or so and you keep getting those tank busters consistently. Having both your tanks in DPS stance, using unchained, will allow you to push that extra 5% skipping those 2 tank busters and taking overall less damage. I think this is a practical example, since groups in i240 gear won't have that issue but groups doing progression will. There's no danger of the tanks losing aggro because Unchained just has make up the difference in dps between tanks and damage dealers, not eclipse the entire team's aggro generation. Tanks are still generating aggro while in dps stance, it doesn't just drop off into nothing.

[Jukebox12]

snip

Do not understand what you are trying to say from all your posts. But please level up all your tank jobs to level 60 before you post something.