Unchained. Seriously, why are we not abusing this skill?

[Februs]

Also tend to just MT fulltime as WAR if I'm with a PLD. If they let me. ...They rarely do.

Sadly, it's a side-effect of the prevailing mentality. Even I have pretty much given up on the idea of Off Tanking anything as Pld, because the general attitude of the majority of War's since 3.0 is that they are a Dps class, not a Tank. I can't count how many runs I've done where I entered the instance in No Oath or Sword Oath, and the War just stood there picking their nose while they waited for me to pull. Worse yet is the Wars who run head first into a mob encounter (typically the early entrance mobs of A2 / M2) with Deliverance on and get their shit kicked in and lose enmity to the Dps. I end up having to swap Oaths and do damage control just to cover for their mistakes, so there's not point to even considering not being the MT. It's not like anyone trusts them to do the job after they've already cocked it up once. No one wants to be stuck in a dungeon all day while the War tries and fails to prove how hard they are.

The same goes for Proxy pulls. Firstly, the fact that people use War as a surrogate for generating enmity is a testament to how utterly broken Pld's kit is. That's sheer lunacy, and SE isn't kidding anyone if they try to say otherwise. Secondly, It's not a tactic that I trust when In DF. I could just be super unlucky with the parties I end up getting, but there is no way in hell I'm going to trust the other tank to even know or understand what a proxy pull is, let alone successfully do one.

Most of this can't be faulted to War's though. If I'm going to point a finger at anyone, the first people to fall under blame is the folks working at SE. I love Pld as a job. I like what it could have been, and the sword and board is still my preferred style of combat. I just wish that SE had taken the same time and consideration when making Pld as they did with War and Drk. The fact that Pld's most useful utility comes in the extremely rare instances in which they can cheese mechs with HG is more than enough proof that SE just didn't put enough thought into the job, and their current idea of a Tank balance is a humorless joke.

[Syhrwyb]

I'll come back to this thread the day that I actually see a War volunteer to actually "TANK" something ... ANYTHING. I can't imagine that will be anytime soon, though. Seeing a war in Defiance is about as rare as a purple spotted unicorn. I don't think I've seen one since the Coil days ... God I miss the Coils ...

It's so aggravating to see so many WARs sit there in Deliverance before a pull in Midas normal and not use Defiance and Unchained to open. Do you really want me, the Shield Oath PLD to pull...?

[Launched]

It's so aggravating to see so many WARs sit there in Deliverance before a pull in Midas normal and not use Defiance and Unchained to open. Do you really want me, the Shield Oath PLD to pull...?

Well, yeah. You're in Shield Oath so clearly you want to tank, and it's Midas Normal where you won't have aggro problems against 99% of DPS because they're all trash anyway.

[Syhrwyb]

Well, yeah. You're in Shield Oath so clearly you want to tank, and it's Midas Normal where you won't have aggro problems against 99% of DPS because they're all trash anyway.

Think you misunderstood what I meant. WARs will sit there in Deliverance making me go into Shield Oath, I never start off in that stance.

[MagiusNecros]

Think you misunderstood what I meant. WARs will sit there in Deliverance making me go into Shield Oath, I never start off in that stance.

I think it's the stigma that WAR is the bonafide OT and that it is expected that the other 2 Tanks are almost always going to be the MT of the instance. Since the 2 get the most out of their kit in MT role.

[Brian_]

It's so aggravating to see so many WARs sit there in Deliverance before a pull in Midas normal and not use Defiance and Unchained to open. Do you really want me, the Shield Oath PLD to pull...?

I don't trust the average DF PLD to be able to make up for the small amount of DPS I lose doing that. Nor do I trust them to be able to tank swap properly when mechanics dictate they should. If they're clearly a geared raider who should know what they're doing then I'll gladly open. I don't care if some barely i220 PLD with unmelded gear would parse 500 DPS in SwO instead of an abysmal 300 DPS in ShO.

[Khalithar]

It's so aggravating to see so many WARs sit there in Deliverance before a pull in Midas normal and not use Defiance and Unchained to open. Do you really want me, the Shield Oath PLD to pull...?

This will probably make me sound arrogant, but I'm glad when I see warriors in dps stance because in any Midas run I always pull regardless of the tank class I'm on since regardless of what the other tank is because every single time I've tried letting someone else MT they screw it up. I'll always just MT it myself so I know the wipe won't be because of a tank messing up.

[Ekimmak]

This will probably make me sound arrogant, but I'm glad when I see warriors in dps stance because in any Midas run I always pull regardless of the tank class I'm on since regardless of what the other tank is because every single time I've tried letting someone else MT they screw it up. I'll always just MT it myself so I know the wipe won't be because of a tank messing up.

Are you sure about that? Because I've ended up eating floor because the offtank decides that they'd rather provoke at five stacks of vuln than three stacks.

[Brian_]

I don't even know why I post here when apparently nobody bothers to read anything or have even a modicum of reading comprehension.

Like I have said and repeated, Unchained's duration is deliberately as long as it takes you to build another 5 stacks. For the third time --

Defiance + Unchained --> HS --> Maim(1) --> Eye(2) --> HS --> SS(3) --> BB(4) --> HS --> Maim(5) --> Deliverance + FC

That's 8 GCDs. 8 GCDs = ~20 seconds = the duration of Unchained.

So...

You are not forced to spend your stacks on IB/SC during Unchained.

You are not forced to spend your stacks on IB/SC during Unchained.

You are not forced to spend your stacks on IB/SC during Unchained.

You are not forced to spend your stacks on IB/SC during Unchained.

You are not forced to spend your stacks on IB/SC during Unchained.

And the reason why a WAR is in Defiance is because they need the extra eHP and effective healing. It's not necessarily to pop IB. Again, for the third time, you have 25% more HP, access to Equilibrium's healing, and receive 20% more healing. That's the combined effect of ToB and Convalescence. Do you even play WAR at any respectable level?

[Reynhart]

Like I have said and repeated, Unchained's duration is deliberately as long as it takes you to build another 5 stacks. For the third time --

For the third time, using 5 stacks for Unchained in the first place prevents you from using Fell Cleave. So, to use your "msot powerful defensive cooldown" you have to sacrifice one opportunity of using your most powerful skill. Is that clear now ? Now, tell me what DRK or PLD needs to sacrifice to gain 25% eHP for a short time ? Nothing. And especially none of their damage by being forced in tanke stance.

Again, for the third time, you have 25% more HP, access to Equilibrium's healing, and receive 20% more healing. That's the combined effect of ToB and Convalescence. Do you even play WAR at any respectable level?

Again, no. You don't have the combined effect of Thrill Of Battle and Convalescence, you just have the effect of...Defiance. Having 25% more HP and receiving 20% more Healing is less than the effect of Rampart.

You make it sound like tank stance has an awesome effect on mitigation, where, technically, it has not. Any defensive cooldown gives you higher mitigation than your tank stance. What makes tank stances good is the fact that they can have 100% uptime. But since you advise to stay in Defiance only for the duration of Unchained, then it loses that property. What also makes Unchained+Defiance less powerful than Rampart is that it doesn't increase your HP, so, you'd technically need to heal yourself, to really gain that 25%eHP. Will you burn another cooldown to gain the exact same eHP increase ? Equilibirum, maybe ?