Unchained. Seriously, why are we not abusing this skill?

[Hierro]

I love using unchained as often as I can, when it's the right time. This includes my openers, but also times when I want to keep my deliverance-like damage while being in defiance. Mainly done when a situation calls for me staying in defiance longer than usual cause the healers need the help, and I don't want to waste wrath stacks but IB isn't necessary. Otherwise, I'm in deliverance cycling through defensives as the situation calls for using all stacks on FC.

[JackFross]

A lot of people in this thread are drastically missing the point.

No matter what your party comp consists of, it is always - always - always - optimal for raid DPS to have the WAR do their 1-minute cooldown opener with Unchained chaining into Deliverance>Berserk and then have the other tank swap in on Pacify. It allows both tanks to do near-perfect opening DPS on the pull without threat issues at the start or in the long run. The issue with this is that it's a JP strat, not NA/EU. The mentality of NA/EU players is different from that of the JP players. Where they consider ways of making micro optimizations here and there to the overall benefit of the raid, we have this unfortunate strict definition of MT and OT and whoever pulls is MT.

Basically, the tanking roles are and should be considered to be more fluid than that.


Also in regards to what Metalwrath said, I don't play WAR, but I am 99.9% positive that your Berserk is delayed by the exact same amount whether you drop an unchained butcher's block first or if that first BB is Deliverance as the off-tank. You're not gonna Berserk before you've built 4 stacks, which takes 2 combos, which is all you'll be in Defiance for anyway with an Unchained pull.

http://ffxivrotations.com/613 versus http://ffxivrotations.com/615

(can obv swap the Infuriate Fell Cleave to be the second not the third if wanted for additional gains off party buffs)

[JackFross]

Sit down, son.

Machinist: 7306.53 potency done during the duration of Wildfire (including the WF pop).
Dragoon: 6446.59 potency done while Blood for Blood is active.

Neither of these include the 3 (MCH) or 2 (DRG) lead-up GCDs before the period I measured. Both of these end less than 25s into the fight.

BLM is likely higher than either, considering the fact that their Fire IV (of which there are 5-6 in the opener) is 500+ potency without Raging Strikes included.

4800 is garbage.

Calculations:

In the 15s during Wildfire, a Machinist will do:
Slug Shot [HE+B4B+RS+HC+GB+A] 200x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 455.85
Clean Shot [HE+B4B+RS+HC+GB+A+Auto-Crit] 220x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.5x1.05 = 752.16
Split Shot [HE+B4B+RS+HC+GB+A] 160x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 364.68
Slug Shot [HE+B4B+RS+HC+GB+A] 200x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 455.85
Split Shot [HE+B4B+RS+HC+GB+A] 160x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 364.68
Slug Shot [HE+B4B+RS+HC+GB+A] 200x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 455.85
Clean Shot [HE+B4B+RS+HC+GB] 200x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 455.85
Slug Shot [HC+GB] 180x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 270.27
Split Shot [HC] 140x1.1x1.05 = 161.7

Total for GCDs: 3736.89

In addition to:
Gauss Round 200x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 455.85
Ricochet 300x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 683.78
Blank 100x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 227.93
Head Graze 100x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05 = 227.93

Total for oGCDs: 1595.49

And 5 ticks of Lead Shot:
45x1.15x1.1x1.2x1.1x1.3x1.05x5 = 512.84

That totals to: 5845.22
Wildfire deals 25% of that: 1461.31

The final total is: 7306.53 potency.
And I didn't include Disembowel or Trick Attack.

--------------------------------------------------------

In the 20s of Blood for Blood, a Dragoon will do:
Disembowel 220x1.15x1.3 = 328.9
Chaos Thrust 250x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 411.125
Chaos Thrust dot 35x8.2x1.15x1.3 = 429.065
4th Hit 290x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 476.905
Phlebotomize 170x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 279.565
Phleb DoT 30x8x1.15x1.3 = 358.8
True Thrust 150x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 246.675
Vorpal Thrust = 200x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 328.9
Full Thrust = 360x1.15x1.3x1.1x1.5 = 888.03
4th Hit 290x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 476.905
Heavy Thrust 170x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 279.565

Total for GCDs: 4504.435

While also hitting:
Leg Sweep 120x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 197.34
Jump 200x1.5x1.3x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 641.355
Spineshatter 170x1.3x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 363.435
Dragonfire 250x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 411.125
Geirskogul 200x1.15x1.3x1.1 = 328.9

Total for oGCDs: 1942.155

The final total is: 6446.59
Again, not including Hypercharge or Trick Attack.
I also didn't adjust for the +25% crit chance that these skills all have.
(15% for Dis -> second 4th, 10% for Dis -> VT, 25% on every ogcd)

//EDIT:

WAR is not ~4800, but actually ~6178.41 potency during a properly executed triple-fell-cleave Berserk. Much better than 4800, but still below the two shown above and likely most - if not all - other DPS Jobs. They /might/ be able to beat MNK and NIN burst, but I'd be shocked if they beat a proper BRD, BLM, or SMN opener. I just can't be arsed to calculate all of these.

The triple Fell Cleave Berserk looks like this:
Fell Cleave 500x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 1039.5
Maim 190x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 395.01
Storm's Eye 270x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 561.33
Heavy Swing 150x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 311.85
Skull Sunder 200x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 415.8
Butcher's Block 280x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 582.12
Fracture 100x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 207.9
Fracture DoT 20x10x1.05x1.5x1.2 = 378
Fell Cleave 500x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 1039.5
Fell Cleave 500x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 1039.5

Brutal Swing 100x1.05x1.5x1.2x1.1 = 207.9

Total: 6178.41

NONE of the above takes Auto Attacks into account. MCH has no autos, but they DO have a 160 damage auto from the Turret every 3s for that duration. It doesn't get any buffs besides its own Hypercharge, but all 5 of those hits add on to the Wildfire pop.

DRG AA's are stronger than WAR AA's, by which I mean a delay of 3.44 = 5-6 AA's in Berserk, while a delay of 2.88 = 6-7 AA's in B4B.

[AaronHughes]

I think some of you are missing the point. A warrior doing an Unchained pull enables both tanks to be in dps stance for the entire fight even if you dont have a NIN. The PLD/DRK simply provokes after the opener and the war can go back to fell cleaving to their heart's content. For a paladin that's 10 minutes of not having damage penalty from shield oath and 10 minutes of using Royal Authority instead Rage of Halone while they still get shield swipe procs.

[Siccoroa]

//EDIT:

WAR is not ~4800, but actually ~6178.41 potency during a properly executed triple-fell-cleave Berserk. Much better than 4800, but still below the two shown above and likely most - if not all - other DPS Jobs. They /might/ be able to beat MNK and NIN burst, but I'd be shocked if they beat a proper BRD, BLM, or SMN opener. I just can't be arsed to calculate all of these.

Calculated BLM and SMN

BLM: Full BLM opener gets 6269 pot over about 23 seconds, with 6 fire 4 and 1 fire 3 under RS.


SMN: I got 3 potential numbers, a regular opener will give you 7115 potency with 4 ruin 3s and 3 af actions during RS. Using 6 af actions gives you 7950 potency. Sit down for this last one, using 6 af actions, rouse&spur, and enkindle nets you 8900 potency!(not sure if it's even possible to get all those skills in). If you add in book slaps SMN could easily be over 9000. If you align your af actions better SMN could end up closing in on 10000 potency.

[MagiusNecros]

Clearly all PLD/DRK mains will require a WAR pull slave. Not only do WAR's have amazing utility but they also have the ability to generate tons of Enmity with no penalty and the PLD/DRK can just execute the Baton Pass. WAR truly is the best Tank job.

[Syhrwyb]

Not only do WAR's have amazing utility but they also have the ability to generate tons of Enmity with no penalty and the PLD/DRK can just execute the Baton Pass. WAR truly is the best Tank job.

Which is a shame because I would love for PLD and DRK to be on WAR's level.

[Februs]

I'll come back to this thread the day that I actually see a War volunteer to actually "TANK" something ... ANYTHING. I can't imagine that will be anytime soon, though. Seeing a war in Defiance is about as rare as a purple spotted unicorn. I don't think I've seen one since the Coil days ... God I miss the Coils ...

[HoodRat]

I'll come back to this thread the day that I actually see a War volunteer to actually "TANK" something ... ANYTHING. I can't imagine that will be anytime soon, though. Seeing a war in Defiance is about as rare as a purple spotted unicorn. I don't think I've seen one since the Coil days ... God I miss the Coils ...

To be fair, I usually go the opposite stance of what the other tank is doing, and when it's a pld or drk they almost always have their tank stance on before even loading in.

[Shurrikhan]

I'll come back to this thread the day that I actually see a War volunteer to actually "TANK" something ... ANYTHING. I can't imagine that will be anytime soon, though. Seeing a war in Defiance is about as rare as a purple spotted unicorn. I don't think I've seen one since the Coil days ... God I miss the Coils ...

In DF 8-man content with a swap and where Path is at all useful, the usual assumption is that I, the WAR, will pull, and then the Sword Oath / no-Grit PLD/DRK will take it off me. Sadly, with no swaps, they tend to just pull even if I'm already in Defiance, despite that I could have allowed them full Sword Oath if they were to swap in on Pacify. "I'll be like, want to Sword Oath?" and they'll be like "That's okay, I'll just MT," and I'll be like "that's my point..." and they'll be like /confused...

Also tend to just MT fulltime as WAR if I'm with a PLD. If they let me. ...They rarely do.

That said, I'm no WAR main. I tend to PLD anything that HG or Cover can cheese, DRK if I'm with a NIN or WAR friend, and WAR the rest simply for the guaranteed NIN-ish tools (threat, slashing) when queuing solo. No-Grit DRK MTing is my preferred gameplay, if my internet can handle double-weaves, and stance-dancing WAR my second favorite.