Tips for SCH? :)

[Vulcwen]

I think you and I have completely different approaches to galvanize. I don’t see Adlo and Succor as heals. I see them as shields with a restorative number that lets you know how much dmg it is going to absorb. I have always been under the impression that a SCH’s strength comes from their ability to mitigate damage. My time as WHM has shown how much more difficult it is for SCH to repair the damage after it comes. When I need to heal, I use Physick, Lustrate, and I’ll have Indom soon for a true AoE heal. I make no mention of stacking Galvanize. There is no over heal with Galvanize because I am not casting it to restore hit points.

The thing about adlo and succor being actually heals is that in the end of the day, after the damage is taken, the result is the same as if the damage was healed afterwards, as long someone would not die.
An example, with succor/medica as both have the same potency:

WHM:
Player is at 10k/13k HP
Player takes 3k damage -> 7k HP
Medica for 2k -> 9k HP
Player takes 3k damage -> 6k HP

Sch:
Player is at 10k/13k HP
Player takes 3k damage -> 7k HP
Succor for 1k + 1k galvanize -> 8k HP + 1k shield
Player takes 3k damage (raw) -> shield breaks, player takes 2k damage -> 6k HP

This means as a healing tool, succor is just as effective as medica, as long it's cast while no shield is already up, and the shield breaks within 30s.
Mitigation only has a real benefit over plain healing if someone would die without it, otherwise shields are simply a form of pro-active/delayed healing.

[Gemina]

The thing about adlo and succor being actually heals is that in the end of the day, after the damage is taken, the result is the same as if the damage was healed afterwards, as long someone would not die.
An example, with succor/medica as both have the same potency:

WHM:
Player is at 10k/13k HP
Player takes 3k damage -> 7k HP
Medica for 2k -> 9k HP
Player takes 3k damage -> 6k HP

Sch:
Player is at 10k/13k HP
Player takes 3k damage -> 7k HP
Succor for 1k + 1k galvanize -> 8k HP + 1k shield
Player takes 3k damage (raw) -> shield breaks, player takes 2k damage -> 6k HP

This means as a healing tool, succor is just as effective as medica, as long it's cast while no shield is already up, and the shield breaks within 30s.
Mitigation only has a real benefit over plain healing if someone would die without it, otherwise shields are simply a form of pro-active/delayed healing.

I’m not sure how medica II comes into play? I’m not looking at a succor vs medica II healing comparison. I am talking about dmg mitigation and the comparison of having galvanize up vs not having it up when the damage comes. It would be better in this case to compare Adlo to Physick. In which case, I totally understand where you're coming from as far as healing is concerned, and agree. In the case of succor, I will use your numbers and format. Forgive me for a couple small changes:

SCH (reactive galvanize):

Player is at 10k/13k HP
Player takes 3K damage -> 7K HP
SCH cast succor for 1K + 1K shield -> 8K +1K shield
Player takes 3k damage, shield breaks, 1k absorbed -> 6k

SCH (proactive galvanize)

Player is at 10/13k HP
SCH cast succor anticipating incoming dmg for 1K +1K shield -> 11K HP + 1K shield
Player takes 3K damage, shield breaks, 1K absorbed -> 9K HP
SCH casts succor for 1K + 1K shield -> 10K +1K shield
Player takes 3K damage, shield breaks, 1K absorbed -> 8K

A 2K difference. If pushing DPS is the argument, this is 2K HP that does not have to be patched up with MP that can now go towards DPS. And this is without mention of other factors such as Fey Illumination and galvanize crits.

Proactive/delayed healing is kinda how the job is set up. We can compare Physick to Adlo, in which case they essentially replenish the same amount of HP, but the double MP cost of adlo and only a possible chance of a crit makes Physick the superior and more efficient healing tool when you need to heal. You can cast Adlo first for the initial heal, but it's all Physick after that until the shield breaks or wears off. There is no point comparing Succor to Indom as they are 150/400 potency respectively.

Unless my logic is flawed, I’m not sure why this is even a debate. Is my head in the clouds here?

[Rawrz]

Unless my logic is flawed, I’m not sure why this is even a debate. Is my head in the clouds here?

You somewhat had a skewed example. As long as you aren't overhealing their max HP, it's just as well. Using succor during downtime (invulnerability mechanics or prepull) is a good way to prepare, but during active combat, if you are overhealing someone at 100% health, it's less than efficient.

She is comparing medica (not medica II, because it has the same healing potency, without a galvanize effect.)

SCH (reactive galvanize):

Player is at 13k/13k HP
Player takes 3K damage -> 10K HP
1 succor>SCH cast succor for 1K + 1K shield -> 11K +1K shield
Player takes 3k damage, shield breaks, 1k absorbed -> 9k

SCH (proactive galvanize)

Player is at 13k/13k HP
1 succor>SCH cast succor anticipating incoming dmg for 1K (overheal) +1K shield -> 13K HP + 1K shield
Player takes 3K damage, shield breaks, 1K absorbed -> 11K HP
2 succor>SCH casts succor for 1K + 1K shield -> 12K +1K shield
Player takes 3K damage, shield breaks, 1K absorbed -> 10K

Doing this ,you spent two gcds on your succors for only 3/4 of the healing potency (450 between shields and heals that weren't overheal.)

It's not novelty AoE. It's significantly more powerful than Broil in the majority of dungeon pulls. It's a drastic gain to pps and dps to pack Blizzard II with you. Stoneskin is /never/ necessary to be on a Scholar. If you need additional weakness padding, just give that person an Adlo before the big damage spike. If you're deploying Adlo, it's already enough for them to survive, especially if it's crit or buffed by one or more of Defiance/Convalescence/Fey Illumination.

Played around with it more and I do take back that Novelty comment. I had a friend parse in Ampa Hard in Expert and had a pull of 2200 DPS (With slip ups on my end.) It kinda fluffed the whole run, since I beat everyone but the BLM at almost 1250 (BLM was 1275.)

What I want to say is: Bliz II is powerful, but it is not useful. It has very few real places that you can use it, where as Stoneskin, gives you the ability to capture inactive time and turn it into Active healing. It also has general other uses, like those moments where tanks need more than Adlo or giving to a DPS with weakness, since it has a duration of 30 minutes and instead of adloing them specifically before heavy raid damage incoming, I can treat them with a general succor (In case deployment is down. You don't really plan death.. in most cases xD.) In Roulettes I will probably tote around Blizz II, but in content that does not have a noticeable portion of adds, Stoneskin will be there. (Now if only they could macro turning on and off certain cross class skills D: </3)

I mean. As a Scholar, you only need 1 pre-pull GCD for Shadowflare followed by 4 other GCDs (B2>M>B1>[Bane]>M2) to be performing well enough in any trash pull. After that, I generally will Lustrate>Adlo the tank before going into Broil or B2 spam. Stoneskin wouldn't extend that margin by a reasonable enough amount to make me not need to drop cleric for an Adlo in a larger pull (I never drop in 3-4 mob pulls). It's a discrete difference - not a fluid one. More health is nice, but doesn't realistically change an encounter. I will never let my tank fall below 3k either way unless I get distracted, so it's really not changing anything, especially when 1 Stoneskin is quite literally 2 attacks from mobs - and in a mob pull of 6-7, that comes in three-fold every 3 seconds. :0

Stoneskin pushes back your need to heal by 1 Embrace on a tank(In a sense as it is a little more than an embrace). Adlo really only pushes it back by 1.5 so it almost keeps up, but Blizz II gives you numbers lol.

On AOE, I usually open with (Precast) Bio II> Miasma> Bio > Swiftcast > Bane > Shadowflare> Miasma II. You don't suffer the extra .5 GCD cast time from Shadowflare and it doesnt clip the GCD if you swift then Bane. If 4 or less targets that will survive more than 18 seconds Aero Spam, and if 5 or more I'll Blizz II.

[JackFross]

You my friend, are godsend!

The ONLY caveat - PS3 does not have horizontal and vertical hotbars. The PS4 does, though, which makes things just as easy to manage as a PC if you have a mouse for more accurate HUD manipulations.

Played around with it more and I do take back that Novelty comment.

Agree to disagree to an extent! I won't argue that Blizz II is worthless in a raid scenario. It absolutely is! My only serious argument is that I can personally never justify spending the mana on Stoneskin for anything. Anytime I want a Stoneskin, Adloquium is both faster and more effective. I'm not gonna SS the whole party, Adlo is both quicker and more effective (esp followed by Lustrate) to pick up the random DPS who eats Height Error during the A8N intermission...

But it comes down to personal preference. Nothing wrong with using Stoneskin, at all, I just don't personally like it on my Scholar. C:

(Now if only they could macro turning on and off certain cross class skills D: </3)

There actually IS a way to macro this. It's /additionalaction or something along those lines. Look it up in text commands when making a Macro. You can remove one skill and add another. I have that set for my DRG when I swap between PvP and PvE - I keep Mantra on for PvE, and I use Foresight instead in PvP. I can get you the actual macro lines I use for it tomorrow! C:

Stoneskin pushes back your need to heal by 1 Embrace on a tank(In a sense as it is a little more than an embrace).

Not sure why you're talking in Embrace terms, especially since that happens independently of me. It's more logical to discuss in flat damage amounts - a Stoneskin on a 27k health PLD (my friend has this much at near i240) will mitigate 2700 damage - a bit more than 2 auto attacks. In a 3 mob pull, this could delay your heals by a GCD... if you ever needed to heal in the first place with a pre-pull Adloquium (which I don't ever have to). In a larger pull, this will have a negligible effect on it - mitigating +2 AA's in a group that's dropping 8+ per 3 seconds isn't gonna change anything. You'll still barely have time for your DPS GCDs!

That said - it's whatever works for you. If Stoneskin works, has worked, and continues to work, use it! I'm not gonna tell someone how to play, just offering my views on the cross-class. <3

[Rawrz]

My only serious argument is that I can personally never justify spending the mana on Stoneskin for anything. Anytime I want a Stoneskin, Adloquium is both faster and more effective. I'm not gonna SS the whole party, Adlo is both quicker and more effective (esp followed by Lustrate) to pick up the random DPS who eats Height Error during the A8N intermission...

I don't use Stoneskin like that exactly. I'll use it during the free moments between pulls if I have time to adlo after. In combat I'll use it, if it's raid wide and someone has weakness, think sephirot's phase 2 LB after a party wide succor, especially if we are late. (Adloing them specifically after, would cut its potency by 150 since succor is present. Again assuming I don't deploy, because it's on cool down.) It also really helps keep a6s clean during brawler phase 2 for green orbs. But thanks for the macro tip! It really will help me use them both, rather than just sticking with Stoneskin. xD

9/10 I'll cringe at someone casting ss in battle, so I use it little, but more justifiably in raid content (because if you can give yourself a little more options, why not xD.)

[JackFross]

I don't use Stoneskin like that exactly.

I usually just rely on my WHM to do that for me. xD

I consider the Stoneskin on weakness players to be "not my job!"

[Rawrz]

There actually IS a way to macro this. It's /additionalaction or something along those lines. Look it up in text commands when making a Macro. You can remove one skill and add another. I have that set for my DRG when I swap between PvP and PvE - I keep Mantra on for PvE, and I use Foresight instead in PvP. I can get you the actual macro lines I use for it tomorrow! C:

I made one myself actually! It's a one button push switch from Stoneskin to Blizzard II or vice versa with a notification of what is changing. Thanks again so much xD.

I chose the lightbulb for my macroicon but none really matters.

/Macrolock
/echo You are switching your cross class skills. The following skill will be disabled:
/recast "Stoneskin"
/recast "Blizzard II"
/aaction "Blizzard II"
/aaction "Stoneskin"
/aaction "Blizzard II" on
/chotbar action "Stoneskin" 8 13
/chotbar action "Blizzard II" 8 13
/echo Your current cross class has been changed to the following:
/recast "Stoneskin"
/recast "Blizzard II"


xD Its Macrolocked, because its kind of slow and I wouldn't want it to mess up. The game just cant do this action as quickly as hotbar/text commands. Bar 8, slot 13 is just where mine is on my cross hotbar (ps4) and youll have to enter your own if anyone wants to use this. If on PC, use /hotbar instead of /chotbar command.

[Gemina]

The ONLY caveat - PS3 does not have horizontal and vertical hotbars. The PS4 does, though, which makes things just as easy to manage as a PC if you have a mouse for more accurate HUD manipulations.

I've had some serious internet troubles the last couple days, but finally got around to giving this a try. I feel like I should have known about this a long time ago, but quite honestly, I can see how it can be missed. I had to swap between controller and mouse mode to set this up. And for someone like me who is less savvy with this kind of things, I never would have discovered it on my own. It's one of the less stand-out features despite being one of the most important to incorporate into gaming with a controller.



Just my initial set up to get things going. I still have to work with it a bit. But as you can see, only two of the twelve abilities I set are on crossbar 1 lol. Needless to say, I've been doing WAY more button presses than is necessary. So much so that I was still doing it after this setup. I have to break out of it now.

[Gemina]

You somewhat had a skewed example. As long as you aren't overhealing their max HP, it's just as well. Using succor during downtime (invulnerability mechanics or prepull) is a good way to prepare, but during active combat, if you are overhealing someone at 100% health, it's less than efficient.

Doing this ,you spent two gcds on your succors for only 3/4 of the healing potency (450between shields and heals that weren't overheal.)

I understand that. However, you changed the situation that was provided from 10K/13K HP to 13K/13K HP to reduce the potency from two succors. We previously were not in an overheal scenario, and instead were in a situation where the player is at 77% health and two 3K attacks are on the way.

Let me flip the scenario in the opposite fashion. Let's say player is at 9K/13K, which is roughly 70% and doesn't need healing. This wave of damage would leave player at 5K/13K (38%, poor condition) opposed to 7/13K (54% fair condition). One needs a heal ASAP, the other has an increased survival rate should more damage come his way, and may not need an immediate heal. This is what the gcd you saved ultimately costs you in the long run.

Galvanize essentially loses 1/2 of its effectiveness being cast after the hit comes. Sure it prepares you for the next hit, assuming it comes within the next 30 seconds. There is no getting around that if you want to mitigate damage, you have to use up a gcd in anticipation for it. Can any other job mitigate dmg like a SCH?