+Healing Potency materia on weapon = no extra healing?

[Physic]

Slightly off the topic of Healing Potency materia. Critical materias such as Critical Attack, and Critical Magic it seems are a 1:1 with what it says. As Coglin pointed out, an increase of say 7% will give you the numeric value of that percentage in effect for your healing magic rather than a 1:1 face value which isn't much different.

I had Critical Attack stacked to 60 on my PGL and vs. equal level mobs my Crits went up by 40-60 dmg, now with Criticals, we have no known base value so this is assumed to be a 1. I have not tested Magical Crit but friends have and they reported basically the same results.

This leads me to the belief that materia is actually priced ass backwards right now and Stat materia is actually the way to go. I would test it first of course but I have a feeling stacking MND will have better results for healers. I say this assuming critical calculations take into account total MND vs. Base and then add the equipment MND as a modifier. I could be completely wrong here. I'm switching my PGL Crit set over to STR to see if my assumptions are correct and that should translate for the most part to what MND will do for your average heals and crits.

My CNJ is only 34 and I don't plan to invest anything into materia until we are dead certain what roles the mages will play.

the way info around what level stats, etc your pug was, and the actual numbers would be useful. In general i doubt its a direct 1 to 1 boost for say increasing attack, simply because i have like 485 attack on pugilist, yet i never do 485 dmg a non geared up lancer will also have fairly close attack, but do way more per hit. My feeling is its more complex than a 1 to 1 rating. But no theory should be thrown out without testing, so maybe you re right

[Ricepudding]

the way info around what level stats, etc your pug was, and the actual numbers would be useful. In general i doubt its a direct 1 to 1 boost for say increasing attack, simply because i have like 485 attack on pugilist, yet i never do 485 dmg a non geared up lancer will also have fairly close attack, but do way more per hit. My feeling is its more complex than a 1 to 1 rating. But no theory should be thrown out without testing, so maybe you re right

The trend I've started seeing since patch seems to be that adding extra stats via materia (+Healing, +Attack, +Crit, etc.) seem to give a 1:1 ratio in boosts. However the base stats, in correlation with base damage or healing, do not seem to share that same 1:1 ratio. Reading through the last few posts, it also seems others are experiencing the same thing with +Crit materia and such.

As an update to the healing side of things, I got around to getting Prime Conditioning last night. Equipping that, along with 431 Healing Magic skill, my Cure 3 now ranges from 950-1015. I even hit a few crits in the 1700's O_O. Gonna try to stack up some +Mind and test that out tonight.

[Sylkis]

I made this graph a few days after 1.19 :


*Since 4MND = 1 Healing potency, I don't think MND affects healing directly so I left that out.
*The lines were drawn in ms paint.
*No traits were equipped, CNJ used whenever possible
*Cures with very low healing potency was done by cross-classing cure, then dividing by 0.8

I would say that healing potency and its materia definitely affects healing.

[MartaDemireux]

Well I've been working with the numbers and have the following two equations worked out:


(3*MND+VIT+(3(Healing/2.75))/2) + ((MND/2)+(Healing/3)/2) = Cure Average

if Healing magic is 413, MND is 289 and VIT is 181.

(3*MND+VIT+(3(Healing/2.75))/2) + ((MND/2)+(Healing/2)/2) = Cure Average

if Healing magic is 420, MND is 271 and VIT is 181.

If Healing magic is 403, MND is 251 and VIT is 174 however, the first equation comes extremely close but is a smaller number than the average by 40. However this test was done with the PGL ability that gives 10% bonus, I had to manually take off 10% from the cure (friend self cast on himself, didn't want to ask him to redo it). By description of the ability its 10% received but by practice I'm reading it's 10% given, perhaps that could be clashing with results as well.

However when I did a naked cast with healing 398, MND 231 and VIT 181 my average was off by 130ish, lower than my observed average. This leads me to believe that either I'm missing something in either/both equation, have them entirely wrong or have them correct but that there are multiple equations, one for each tier of 10 healing magic. If someone wants to use these equations I've worked out and tinker with them by all means do so, I'm no mathematician but if I can help one out I'm happy to do so!

[NarikoStar]

This might help you out a bit Marta, I know in XI VIT was used in the Cure formula but I haven't seen anything else aside from your postings here leading to it, (not ruling it out just quite interesting).

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...ey-work./page2

Scroll down a bit and you can find Kaeko's findings, I'll quote the testing on CureIII specifically here, but I would encourage to look through the others, as it is quite interesting:

Cure III:

Here we start to get into testing with large amounts of raw data. Briefly describing my testing methodology, I started with a control build of a CON using only Cure III w/o Prime Conditioning on with base stats of 234 MND and 399 Healing Magic Skill. I would then adjust these stats carefully with equipment and traits so that one remained the same while increasing the other. Trials were conducted by just self-healing myself. Since in 1.19 you cure for max amount even if you're already at max HP, it made this less painful to test. Results as follows:

Control: 234 MND, 399 Healing Magic Skill
n = 324, criticals = 28 (8.64%)
mean = 854.1, median = 854, minimum = 829, maximum = 880
c.mean = 1042, c.median = 1040, c.min = 1010, c.max = 1069

Healing(+) Build: 234 MND, 411 Healing Magic Skill (+12 skill from control)
n = 177, criticals = 16 (9.04%)
mean = 872.0, median = 871, minimum = 845, maximum = 898
c.mean = 1062.7, c.median = 1062, c.min = 1039, c.max = 1090

Mind(+) Build: 280 MND, 411 Healing Magic Skill (+46 MND from healing build)
n = 107, criticals = 12 (11.21%)
mean = 881.5, median = 881, minimum = 856, maximum = 909
c.mean = 1062.7, c.median = 1063, c.min = 1043, c.max = 1083

These tests had a total n of 608, which is fairly limited, but I felt comfortable because at the conclusion of each test, the mean, median, and average of min and max values were extremely close to one another. Unfortunately, it is difficult a formula with this data. If we were to make the huge assumption that the formula works similarly to XI, then you could get this:

Cure III = [ 196 ] + { [Healing Magic] x 1.5 } + { [ MND ] x 0.25 }

However, there is no indication other than speculation that both Healing Magic and/or MND follow a direct modifier increase (as opposed to say multiplicative), so I would take the above formula with a grain of salt. I would also take the critical hit data with a grain of salt as well due to limited trials, other than the fact that when you critical hit, there seems to be a rough +20-25% HP cured increase - that much I'm confident in.

Lastly, with regards to the distribution of cure values on the control (n=324), I found that the distribution did not follow any sort of "normal distribution", and felt it was random more than anything. Below is a graph which plots the frequency of each value between the min and max seen in the control test. Had there been some kind of normal or bimodal distribution, I think I would have seem something by 327 trials.

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4076/asdfec.png

* Healing Magic +1 improves Cure III more than MND +1
* I'm unwilling to go any further than that regarding an accurate formula
* When critical hit occurs, the HP cured increases by roughly 20-25%
* Cures appear to be a random value between a set min and max value (not normal)
* No testing was done on Second Wind I/II, Cure I/II or the Sacrifice Spells

The above testing falls far short of being able to find a definitive formula for Cure III; however, I think it does tell us a couple of important things. First off, that the randomness in cure values does not seem to follow a normal distribution, but a random one (where all values between min and max have an equal chance of occuring). Secondly, it at least gives us the general idea that 1 or 1, healing magic is better than MND. I gave a sample formula, which is likely horribly flawed, but you're free to follow up on it if you'd like. In that sample, I imply that every Healing magic skill increases Cure III by roughly 1.5 HP while every MND increases it by 0.25 HP. Finally, Crits seem to add 20-25% HP cured, though I have not tested anything regarding Crit gear. Overall, I'd say a Healing Magic build on Head/Weapon may be worthwhile for a dedicated healer, but givent he expense of Healer's Hand IV, I probably wouldn't invest in any double socketing at this point. Max MP builds (or MND since it adds MP as well) are probably a more realistic goal for a dedicated healer in 1.19. Again, something well worth revisiting in 1.20 with stat allocation.

[Ricepudding]

I just wanna give a quick shoutout to everyone helping out and contributing to this thread. There's lots of great information in here now, so thank you everyone, and keep it up!

[SilverPhantom]

yea im interested on this topic since im working on stating and melding up mu conj

[Matsume]

Well, if the stat bonuses due to materia are factored on a 1:1 basis in a manner other than the base stats of equipment, then those formulas can prety much go out the window when calculating melded gear bonuses.

Has anyone ome up with a deffinitive difference between +MND and +Healing Magic Potency? for Example is there a difference in your Cures if you use a Jade Crook with a single NQ Grade IV MND materia vs. Jade Crook + NQ Grade IV Healers Hands? and then try again with 2x assuming someone here has both a 2x healers crook and 2x mnd crook. Would also be nice to throw in a Magic Crit Crook for three way comparison...