Losing points? Not a problem - SE

[itsoni]

Hi.

I've played a few matches. Lost a few. Won a few. I always try to win. Even when things are going bad. I never throw in the towel. Now I feel dead inside.

Today I've met a player who literally admit to losing on purpose. Played with him twice today. A few times last night where he did the exact same thing.

I was just told because of privacy limitations they can't tell me what will be done. I was just told it's NOT possible to get points back because this player has decided to grief everyone and lose purposely (congrats, he's literally got what he wanted) and I'm sure, as many others have before him, will be left to continue playing in the Feast after a while.

I've had friends report players for using speedhacks. No action gets taken - they're still playing in Silver Rank.
I've reported players for losing matches on purpose - then get matched up with them for the same thing to happen a while later on.

Even on the forums here people are saying there's no action taken.

Do you know how much a loss actually sets a player back? It's not just 1 loss means you have to win 1 more time - the entire matchmaking is LUCK. You can lose once and not get another win for 5/6 matches because it's not skill based match making in any sense.

It's become apparent WE want the PvP to thrive here on this forum. It's SE's policy, their unwillingness to actually do something about these players and not implement skill based match making that's ruining it for everyone.

The worst thing is there's people that actually defend this because "omg u guys suck!!!" while they're pushing 50k non-burst DPS is where their brain is.

If it's been proven a player is purposely losing, why is it that we cannot get our points back? That player is literally just getting what he wants. He's wasting HOURS of everyone's time and because of "policy reasons" we're left to pick up the pieces and blow another few hours in queue.

GG. Well played. We're racking up more playtime and obviously that's the only thing that matters here.

/rant

[Aviars]

Do you know how much a loss actually sets a player back? It's not just 1 loss means you have to win 1 more time - the entire matchmaking is LUCK. You can lose once and not get another win for 5/6 matches because it's not skill based match making in any sense.

I have always said that for this game mode to be skill based that people need to be matched based on role, not by a whole collective team. There is a reason why melee dps or mch have the best carry potential out of all of the roles.

A healer cannot enable a bad dps to actually kill anything, but a good dps in a 'op' role can carry a bad healer. One situation that can happen is that a gold healer and tank get paired with two bronze dps while the other team has two gold dps and a bronze healer and tank, then just expect the gold and tank healer to lose because a bronze healer can technically be able to deal with healer through bronze dps counter parts while the bronze dps can't kill anything.

[Zojha]

I have always said that for this game mode to be skill based that people need to be matched based on role, not by a whole collective team.

Not just role: job. And even that can get skewed by gear, especially when skill is very close together.

Except that as with all things PvP, it doesn't work because of a lack of playerbase. I'm honestly not sure why SE even bothers trying to make things competitive when they can barely sustain casual PvP.

[Aviars]

Not just role: job. And even that can get skewed by gear, especially when skill is very close together.

Except that as with all things PvP, it doesn't work because of a lack of playerbase. I'm honestly not sure why SE even bothers trying to make things competitive when they can barely sustain casual PvP.

I think that is going a bit too far, I mostly believe that most of the jobs within the roles are balanced with slight exceptions.There is a reason why the top is filled with mostly melee dps roles minus the ninja which may need slight tweaking and how out of all the ranged roles mch comes out on top, which may need nerfing.

Also I don't think gear choice would be much of a issue, if two dragoons play, have roughly the same rating with gear differences then I don't see the problem with that because the dragoon with the less optimal gear set is compensating somehow to stay on par with the other dragoon. So I think that is a not issue.

[Zojha]

So I think that is a not issue.

It dilutes the "skill" aspect - everything that isn't exactly the same dilutes it. If you want to only measure skill, you have to have everyone use the same setup (mouse/keyboard or gamepad), the same latency, the same PC, the same gear, the same job, the same role etc. Everything that might influence someone's performance that is not skill needs to be excluded.

The alternative is to accept that what is being measured is not purely skill, but rather an amalgamation of skill and other factors. That's just speaking theory, tho'.

As for jobs...I do think they are unbalanced. I'm just gonna point to the biggest offender named DRK and call it a day.

[Aviars]

It dilutes the "skill" aspect - everything that isn't exactly the same dilutes it. If you want to only measure skill, you have to have everyone use the same setup (mouse/keyboard or gamepad), the same latency, the same PC, the same gear, the same job, the same role etc. Everything that might influence someone's performance that is not skill needs to be excluded.

The alternative is to accept that what is being measured is not purely skill, but rather an amalgamation of skill and other factors. That's just speaking theory, tho'.

As for jobs...I do think they are unbalanced. I'm just gonna point to the biggest offender named DRK and call it a day.

If both dragoons in my example are both the same rating then I don't see the issue, if they are both able to reach a certain level doing whatever they are doing then it can be said that they are equal.

I also stated that beyond a few exceptions like drk, ninja and mch that the classes are more or less balanced.

It seems you just ignore what I say and make the claim otherwise by saying something that I already said.

[Pence]

Antagonistically....there's so many people reporting other players. Each needs a real investigation (No. Your 1 match is not enough to ban them). It takes time, and man power. Stacked on the other complaints, on the other work, on the other complaints.

SE wants to have proof that these people are cheating before a ban.

[Ryuko]

There are a few problems at play here.

One of the biggest is how matchmaking works (as mentioned above). Due to the way it works, you can be matched with anyone +/- two ranks. So, until you get to the Gold rank, you will STILL get matched with unranked players. And once you are Gold? You will still get matched with Bronze. Considering you can't be demoted from Bronze, it really doesn't mean much more than Unranked. There are, of course, some pretty awesome players in these ranks that just haven't had the time to grind out their rank in this season... or perhaps they are alts... but the vast majority of players at Unranked and Bronze are pretty new to the game, and hard to carry. Due to the way matchmaking works, it is very difficult to break out of the Silver ranking -- even if you are good. I've actually heard from the majority of people complaining that they are having the hardest time at that point. Now coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, Platinum people can be matched with Silver players -- who honestly, may not be very good. I've been surprised to find people at Silver who didn't seem to be very good at their role (or perhaps they were just trying out something different for the night... another problem all its own).

There's a reason why the majority of top ranked players are melee. It's not just that they are better players than the rest of us -- they just have the greatest carrying potential, and thus, likelihood of pushing through the ranks at an easier pace. As mentioned by someone else, it really is difficult to carry a newer player. For example, I was recently in a match with two Silver, one Gold, and one Bronze on each team. Our team had the Bronze healer while the other team had the Bronze dps (whose DPS at the end of the match was a little low, but not noticeably awful). Their team completely destroyed ours because our healer really didn't know what they were doing and we were just getting melted. As soon as the other team realized our healer was the weak link, they just burst them down ASAP whenever they saw the healer. And, the benefit/curse of seeing the other team's names is the fact that you can recognize people. There is this one DRG who I know tells his team to focus me every single match we are on opposing teams (lol) and I often hear people say stuff like, "The healer on the other team isn't very good, so let's burst him first." Basically, it's hard for you to even stand a chance if you are paired up with the wrong combination of people -- or at least, the odds are stacked against you.

Yes, a lot of it is luck (who you are paired with), but that 'luck' is mostly caused by how matchmaking works. I wish SE would fix this. Even when there are short queues, I am getting put into groups with unranked/bronze people. I wouldn't mind waiting longer to be in more matches with people around my rank. I personally think +/- one rank is a bit more realistic and fair for competitive PvP.

As far as having a better time PvPing right now? I mentioned a bit of everything in another thread, but the biggest thing is... if you are getting a losing streak (and you honestly don't think you are the problem), just stop queueing for the night. Don't tank your rating when you aren't doing well. I made this mistake last weekend and have spent the better part of the week pushing it back up to the Gold qualifier. Another piece of advice: the weekend is probably a bad time to try to push for your next ranks... especially because a lot of people will have a lot of free time and want to make the most of the weekend... perhaps by starting to PvP.

The other thing I REALLY hope SE is doing is keeping track of what jobs are in each match, and how those matches go. It is concerning to me that the feast rankings really don't show someone's role (unless you personally recognize them or they have PvP gear on when you look at their armory page). The reason I want SE to do this is so that it is more transparent what roles are getting to the top tier... and not just which role, but which job in that role. They really need to tweak their matchmaking algorithm a bit more.

As far as the current season... I wouldn't sweat it too much. Obviously, do your best, but don't let it get to you.

[SaveTheSunF1R3x]

if you are getting a losing streak (and you honestly don't think you are the problem), just stop queueing for the night. Don't tank your rating when you aren't doing well. Another piece of advice: the weekend is probably a bad time to try to push for your next ranks... especially because a lot of people will have a lot of free time and want to make the most of the weekend... perhaps by starting to PvP.

This is what irks me the most about the feast. It literally punishes you for playing more than a good batch of games a day. The nights/early morning is by far the best time to queue atm. The weekend? good luck with that. I wish there was an unranked 4v4 version of the feast so i can play when ranked gets to much to handle. At the current moment i've only been playing a handful of games a day in fear that i will tank my rating. As much as i'd like to say rating doesnt matter. Losing 300+ in one sitting is definitely not what i'd call "fun".

[Ryuko]

This is what irks me the most about the feast. It literally punishes you for playing more than a good batch of games a day. The nights/early morning is by far the best time to queue atm. The weekend? good luck with that. I wish there was an unranked 4v4 version of the feast so i can play when ranked gets to much to handle. At the current moment i've only been playing a handful of games a day in fear that i will tank my rating. As much as i'd like to say rating doesnt matter. Losing 300+ in one sitting is definitely not what i'd call "fun".

I understand. I've been in that same boat. I literally grinded up to 900 in a single week. With the exception of a few losses here and there, it was an upward trajectory from day one. Then I hit my gold qualifier... failed that, tanked my rating down to the 600s on a single Saturday. Loss after loss after loss. I think I won two or three games that day... in HOURS of play. At that point, I did adjust my PvP gear (since I now had the marks to really personalize it), but I couldn't really do much else to improve myself as a contributing player. I already have high steady DPS and burst DPS. I already support players with CCs and cooldowns. I make calls, explain things, place (and follow) marks... Also, I've never really been raged at the same way I see players rage at other people... so I knew even the most temperamental people weren't blaming me for losses. (Though there was one time someone went off on me for getting LBed at the end of the match after being CC locked to death on our own turf, after I was forced to Purify. That was actually pretty amazing.)

The truth is -- every now and then, you're going to have a match you lose. Either your team will get bested in an even competition, or you'll just get matched up with a wide range of players. It's very rare that one mistake will cost a match (although it does happen in close battles). The honest truth is that the instances of getting the odds stacked against you are just way more likely to happen on the weekend. It really is unfortunate, because a lot of people have a lot of free time on the weekend and want to play the game then. And yes... there is this sense of anxiety when I queue up during the weekend. Now I'm back up to my qualifier, and it's the weekend again. Go figure. I don't mind even matches, but when I queue up and there is a clearly uneven level of skill... it's frustrating... because a minute is not enough time to teach a weak player how to PvP. And guess what? Those of us who queue up a lot definitely recognize the other people who also queue up a lot. So, we know their skill level... and more importantly, we know who is the 'fresh meat' of our team and the other team. Chances are, someone we don't recognize might be new... and if they are, we can feast upon them. (See what I did there?)

I really don't know if pushing to be in the top 100 is worth it. Maybe I'll grind as high as I have to just to secure a spot and stop playing for the season (probably around 1.1k)? Is that what SE wants? :P I feel like there are a few players doing this, and this might be what's causing problems with the rest of us when we are having queuing trouble.