botting.

[MANTASTIC]

OP was a bit vague but I assume he's referring specifically to crafting bots? And/or turbo controller users?

Excuse the long post, and look for the bold for the tl;dr.

AFK-crafting in FF14 is a symptom several major problems of the crafting system itself. I'll do my best to explain my opinions on the big ones, starting with:
1) Absurd time invesment requirements. Not only does it take a solid minute or so to complete one item and begin the next, the game demands your attention every 3 seconds like a nagging 4 year old. I always imagine the crafting system to be one of those really annoying jersey shore-types that use the words "bro" and "alpha" unironically.

"Hey bro, how you wanna go about this?"
>Standard
"Ok, good choice bro."
...
"So, what will it be this time?"
>Standard
...
"Yo bro, wh-"
>Standard

I believe a system such as this would be serviceable(not anywhere near ideal, mind you) were it not for the...
2) Terrible rate of progression. Now we're cooking with ass. The snail-like pace of the crafting process compounds the abysmal rate of experience points. There is a huge gap between the average and optimal experience point rates between combat classes and crafter classes, but they are are on the same leveling curve!

100,000 experience points may breeze by in an entertaining group activity for my conjurer, but I'll be lucky(or rather, masochistic) if I make that much in 6 hours of straight crafting, especially towards the higher end. My current strategy for getting a craft from 48-50 is saving up leves and mashing them out. And it takes about 50-60 or so to do it.

So we know about how slow the process is, but that wouldn't itself explain why so very many people are tapin' dat x button down on their controllers. Well, there's a few(or more) problems left to discuss, let's continue with...
3) Random occurrences mitigate player decision-making/skill. Ah yes, RNG. FF14's crafting system is completely full of random outcomes at every turn. Any skill not named perfection will only increase the chances of a favorable outcome. An element can still destabilize on a white orb, and an action can still get a no-durability lost success on a red orb. This is further exacerbated by a...

4) Lack of information. An avid crafter who has done hours of research on the vastness of the internet only has a smidgeon of an idea of how the mechanics of crafting work. How is a new player supposed to know what the hell control, craftsmanship, and magic craftsmanship effect? Why are recipe levels kept hidden from players? Not to mention hidden background statistics, most notably "risk." Were it not for skills such as high return, we'd not even know to call it that.

Throw all of the above together, and we reach the final, most damnable aspect of FF14's crafting system:
5) Broken Effort to Reward Ratio. This refers to how putting for the effort to make advancement is rewarded. In a healthy effort to reward ratio, a player who makes larger contributions of skill to the task at hand is awarded proportionately to the act. Think about 14's crafting system with this in mind. The player who invests time into trying to maximize the result of a crating attempt may, at best, hope for an additional 50 or experience points, and a scaling (but always sub-40%?) chance of an HQ product. Now factor the additional time required for this.

So! What does all that mean, and how does it relate to bots and turbo controllers? Ask yourself the following:

"Why should I pay attention to crafting for long, long hours at a time, when mashing on standard synthesis is nearly as effective, and can be done while I do other, more interesting things?"

Truly, a difficult question to answer. I'll leave you with one final thing to roll around in those heads of yours.

The only way to prevent botting is to not design content that encourages it!
A mindless, grindy crafting system will inevitably be "played" by a mindless bot.

[Charismatic]

OP was a bit vague but I assume he's referring specifically to crafting bots? And/or turbo controller users?

Excuse the long post, and look for the bold for the tl;dr.

AFK-crafting in FF14 is a symptom several major problems of the crafting system itself. I'll do my best to explain my opinions on the big ones, starting with:
1) Absurd time invesment requirements. Not only does it take a solid minute or so to complete one item and begin the next, the game demands your attention every 3 seconds like a nagging 4 year old. I always imagine the crafting system to be one of those really annoying jersey shore-types that use the words "bro" and "alpha" unironically.

"Hey bro, how you wanna go about this?"
>Standard
"Ok, good choice bro."
...
"So, what will it be this time?"
>Standard
...
"Yo bro, wh-"
>Standard

I believe a system such as this would be serviceable(not anywhere near ideal, mind you) were it not for the...
2) Terrible rate of progression. Now we're cooking with ass. The snail-like pace of the crafting process compounds the abysmal rate of experience points. There is a huge gap between the average and optimal experience point rates between combat classes and crafter classes, but they are are on the same leveling curve!

100,000 experience points may breeze by in an entertaining group activity for my conjurer, but I'll be lucky(or rather, masochistic) if I make that much in 6 hours of straight crafting, especially towards the higher end. My current strategy for getting a craft from 48-50 is saving up leves and mashing them out. And it takes about 50-60 or so to do it.

So we know about how slow the process is, but that wouldn't itself explain why so very many people are tapin' dat x button down on their controllers. Well, there's a few(or more) problems left to discuss, let's continue with...
3) Random occurrences mitigate player decision-making/skill. Ah yes, RNG. FF14's crafting system is completely full of random outcomes at every turn. Any skill not named perfection will only increase the chances of a favorable outcome. An element can still destabilize on a white orb, and an action can still get a no-durability lost success on a red orb. This is further exacerbated by a...

4) Lack of information. An avid crafter who has done hours of research on the vastness of the internet only has a smidgeon of an idea of how the mechanics of crafting work. How is a new player supposed to know what the hell control, craftsmanship, and magic craftsmanship effect? Why are recipe levels kept hidden from players? Not to mention hidden background statistics, most notably "risk." Were it not for skills such as high return, we'd not even know to call it that.

Throw all of the above together, and we reach the final, most damnable aspect of FF14's crafting system:
5) Broken Effort to Reward Ratio. This refers to how putting for the effort to make advancement is rewarded. In a healthy effort to reward ratio, a player who makes larger contributions of skill to the task at hand is awarded proportionately to the act. Think about 14's crafting system with this in mind. The player who invests time into trying to maximize the result of a crating attempt may, at best, hope for an additional 50 or experience points, and a scaling (but always sub-40%?) chance of an HQ product. Now factor the additional time required for this.

So! What does all that mean, and how does it relate to bots and turbo controllers? Ask yourself the following:

"Why should I pay attention to crafting for long, long hours at a time, when mashing on standard synthesis is nearly as effective, and can be done while I do other, more interesting things?"

Truly, a difficult question to answer. I'll leave you with one final thing to roll around in those heads of yours.

The only way to prevent botting is to not design content that encourages it!
A mindless, grindy crafting system will inevitably be "played" by a mindless bot.

I'd sig this if it weren't so long.
You hit the nail on the head.

[Crica]

The only way to prevent botting is to not design content that encourages it!

I agree.

However, the player base asked SE for the crafting system to be re-designed from the NON-bot design it was previously to the PRO-bot design it currently is.

SE has only been, since day one of release, re-working all designs of the game to what the players have asked for.

It was not bot-friendly before - albeit, that also means it was not player-friendly either - players would have to push alot more buttons and think about their choices to craft before the current changes to the crafting were implemented because the players ASKED for them.

I have been watching everyone ask for these changes, laughing the whole time at them, because I knew they were asking for SE to make it so easy that botters would love it.

Now, they see its so easy for botters, and they are crying, like I knew they would.

[MANTASTIC]

I agree.

However, the player base asked SE for the crafting system to be re-designed from the NON-bot design it was previously to the PRO-bot design it currently is.

SE has only been, since day one of release, re-working all designs of the game to what the players have asked for.

It was not bot-friendly before - albeit, that also means it was not player-friendly either - players would have to push alot more buttons and think about their choices to craft before the current changes to the crafting were implemented because the players ASKED for them.

To clarify, I'd rather have the current system than the slightly different one that came before it. I'd like, overall, for the barriers to entry of crafting be removed, and for there to be a fun/engaging way to advance it without mindless repetition. If that proves impossible to design, just make it an auto craft system like wow's, or like fallen earth/eve's* if they want the time requirement to remain.

*In those games, products are crafted in real time while the player does other things, and the crafting process continues when the player logs off.

[Aenarion]

stuff

I grinded almost all crafts to 50 now, and I agree with every point you made

[Hachiko]

OP was a bit vague but I assume he's referring specifically to crafting bots? And/or turbo controller users?

Excuse the long post, and look for the bold for the tl;dr.

AFK-crafting in FF14 is a symptom several major problems of the crafting system itself. I'll do my best to explain my opinions on the big ones, starting with:
1) Absurd time invesment requirements. Not only does it take a solid minute or so to complete one item and begin the next, the game demands your attention every 3 seconds like a nagging 4 year old. I always imagine the crafting system to be one of those really annoying jersey shore-types that use the words "bro" and "alpha" unironically.

"Hey bro, how you wanna go about this?"
>Standard
"Ok, good choice bro."
...
"So, what will it be this time?"
>Standard
...
"Yo bro, wh-"
>Standard

I believe a system such as this would be serviceable(not anywhere near ideal, mind you) were it not for the...
2) Terrible rate of progression. Now we're cooking with ass. The snail-like pace of the crafting process compounds the abysmal rate of experience points. There is a huge gap between the average and optimal experience point rates between combat classes and crafter classes, but they are are on the same leveling curve!

100,000 experience points may breeze by in an entertaining group activity for my conjurer, but I'll be lucky(or rather, masochistic) if I make that much in 6 hours of straight crafting, especially towards the higher end. My current strategy for getting a craft from 48-50 is saving up leves and mashing them out. And it takes about 50-60 or so to do it.

So we know about how slow the process is, but that wouldn't itself explain why so very many people are tapin' dat x button down on their controllers. Well, there's a few(or more) problems left to discuss, let's continue with...
3) Random occurrences mitigate player decision-making/skill. Ah yes, RNG. FF14's crafting system is completely full of random outcomes at every turn. Any skill not named perfection will only increase the chances of a favorable outcome. An element can still destabilize on a white orb, and an action can still get a no-durability lost success on a red orb. This is further exacerbated by a...

4) Lack of information. An avid crafter who has done hours of research on the vastness of the internet only has a smidgeon of an idea of how the mechanics of crafting work. How is a new player supposed to know what the hell control, craftsmanship, and magic craftsmanship effect? Why are recipe levels kept hidden from players? Not to mention hidden background statistics, most notably "risk." Were it not for skills such as high return, we'd not even know to call it that.

Throw all of the above together, and we reach the final, most damnable aspect of FF14's crafting system:
5) Broken Effort to Reward Ratio. This refers to how putting for the effort to make advancement is rewarded. In a healthy effort to reward ratio, a player who makes larger contributions of skill to the task at hand is awarded proportionately to the act. Think about 14's crafting system with this in mind. The player who invests time into trying to maximize the result of a crating attempt may, at best, hope for an additional 50 or experience points, and a scaling (but always sub-40%?) chance of an HQ product. Now factor the additional time required for this.

So! What does all that mean, and how does it relate to bots and turbo controllers? Ask yourself the following:

"Why should I pay attention to crafting for long, long hours at a time, when mashing on standard synthesis is nearly as effective, and can be done while I do other, more interesting things?"

Truly, a difficult question to answer. I'll leave you with one final thing to roll around in those heads of yours.

The only way to prevent botting is to not design content that encourages it!
A mindless, grindy crafting system will inevitably be "played" by a mindless bot.

Beautiful post. This is sums it up pretty comprehensively.

[Antonn]

OP was a bit vague but I assume he's referring specifically to crafting bots? And/or turbo controller users?

Excuse the long post, and look for the bold for the tl;dr.

AFK-crafting in FF14 is a symptom several major problems of the crafting system itself. I'll do my best to explain my opinions on the big ones, starting with:
1) Absurd time invesment requirements. Not only does it take a solid minute or so to complete one item and begin the next, the game demands your attention every 3 seconds like a nagging 4 year old. I always imagine the crafting system to be one of those really annoying jersey shore-types that use the words "bro" and "alpha" unironically.

"Hey bro, how you wanna go about this?"
>Standard
"Ok, good choice bro."
...
"So, what will it be this time?"
>Standard
...
"Yo bro, wh-"
>Standard

I believe a system such as this would be serviceable(not anywhere near ideal, mind you) were it not for the...
2) Terrible rate of progression. Now we're cooking with ass. The snail-like pace of the crafting process compounds the abysmal rate of experience points. There is a huge gap between the average and optimal experience point rates between combat classes and crafter classes, but they are are on the same leveling curve!

100,000 experience points may breeze by in an entertaining group activity for my conjurer, but I'll be lucky(or rather, masochistic) if I make that much in 6 hours of straight crafting, especially towards the higher end. My current strategy for getting a craft from 48-50 is saving up leves and mashing them out. And it takes about 50-60 or so to do it.

So we know about how slow the process is, but that wouldn't itself explain why so very many people are tapin' dat x button down on their controllers. Well, there's a few(or more) problems left to discuss, let's continue with...
3) Random occurrences mitigate player decision-making/skill. Ah yes, RNG. FF14's crafting system is completely full of random outcomes at every turn. Any skill not named perfection will only increase the chances of a favorable outcome. An element can still destabilize on a white orb, and an action can still get a no-durability lost success on a red orb. This is further exacerbated by a...

4) Lack of information. An avid crafter who has done hours of research on the vastness of the internet only has a smidgeon of an idea of how the mechanics of crafting work. How is a new player supposed to know what the hell control, craftsmanship, and magic craftsmanship effect? Why are recipe levels kept hidden from players? Not to mention hidden background statistics, most notably "risk." Were it not for skills such as high return, we'd not even know to call it that.

Throw all of the above together, and we reach the final, most damnable aspect of FF14's crafting system:
5) Broken Effort to Reward Ratio. This refers to how putting for the effort to make advancement is rewarded. In a healthy effort to reward ratio, a player who makes larger contributions of skill to the task at hand is awarded proportionately to the act. Think about 14's crafting system with this in mind. The player who invests time into trying to maximize the result of a crating attempt may, at best, hope for an additional 50 or experience points, and a scaling (but always sub-40%?) chance of an HQ product. Now factor the additional time required for this.

So! What does all that mean, and how does it relate to bots and turbo controllers? Ask yourself the following:

"Why should I pay attention to crafting for long, long hours at a time, when mashing on standard synthesis is nearly as effective, and can be done while I do other, more interesting things?"

Truly, a difficult question to answer. I'll leave you with one final thing to roll around in those heads of yours.

The only way to prevent botting is to not design content that encourages it!
A mindless, grindy crafting system will inevitably be "played" by a mindless bot.

/thread~~~