Would you like an in-game parser?

[Kaurie]

Because we have very different philosophies on what makes a game fun. You like numbers and making sure everything is working as optimally as possible, whereas I just like to go in and have fun. Am I going to purposely fail or sit and do nothing when I could toss out a few dots or stone IIIs? No. But I don't want to have to stress out that I didn't get exactly 3 stone IIIs off during X window when I only got 2 off. And with someone like you on the team, I would worry about that whether you yelled at me or not and that makes things less enjoyable for me.

I see, I think your assumptions are unfounded, but I understand. Personally, I always try to better myself, and if we are having issues with DPS I may throw out tips. That said, I've never yelled at a team mate for any reason, including damage. I feel that it is far more important to the enjoyability of the game, respect for myself, and the success of the team to create a strong relationship with your team, than it is to have high DPS numbers. DPS numbers can always improve, but the first thing is getting down teamwork, second is mechanics, last is DPS. My team currently is no top-tier team, on Twinkledinks yesterday 3 out of 8 of us were in the green (25-45th percentile), and 5 of us were in the grey (under 20th percentile). We cleared it, and that is what matters. However, when we first got to A5S, the Hummelfaust DPS check was quite high, we needed 8.5k and we were just shy of that. We worked out ways that we could improve our DPS as a team (i.e. timing buffs/trick attack etc). Having a parser to show each team member how their numbers changed with every adjustment was incredibly useful. All 8 of us could change and maybe 3 of us improved and 5 didn't. Without a parser, we'd all assume that our changes were detrimental. Meanwhile, 3 people improved.

That said, I believe this thread is more than just parsers for a raid environment- where they are already fairly common. I see the reason why a parser should be added is so that people can learn how to play while leveling, before they get to the really difficult content.

I do prefer a casual team of people who go into fights to have fun. I had to do coil mostly in the Duty Finder and I have just met some players in the DF who take the game way too seriously and they stress me out because I just wanna relax and enjoy myself.

I think you would prefer a static. There is a lot more animosity in PUGs from DF/PF. When you are with a static team, you form a friendship which supercedes your DPS. In a random group, people assume they will never see you again and some people take that as an opportunity to be jerks.

Do I hate people who have parsers? No. I've been parsed myself and have come out decently according to the person who parsed me. But I don't want the game to become something where everyone is obsessed with numbers that I have to feel intimidated by entering the duty finder in case I get someone with a tree crammed up their butt and have to worry about every little thing. I am a person who does just about everything via the duty finder. My FC is extremely casual and most of them do crafting or goof around and very few raid. But my experiences raiding in FFXIV thus far have been more stressful than enjoyable and that has pretty much ruined raid content for me. If that starts transitioning to the DF content such as dungeons, I would very likely stop playing. To me, when a game starts causing stress or becoming a job, it's time to stop playing-- it's not a game anymore.

I definitely respect that opinion. It is not very fun to have people be jerks to you, but really people are already this way in DF. As you said there are Tommy the Tanks, as you call them, being jerks and they do not have a parser necessarily. Having a parser could address a major issue of players being rather ignorant to their performance. Back when I mained SMN over SCH, it was very common for me to think to myself, 'this run is going a little slow, but meh' only for the tank to say at the end, 'wow that was the fastest run ever!'. I'd then queue on my SCH/PLD and runs would literally take twice as long (or more, as noted a few pages back 15 mins vs 35+). It's not an insignificant difference.

But I will turn your question back to you: Why should someone like me be forced to play under the shadow of a parser when you guys who want parsers can join groups of your own like minded individuals who want to use parsers to improve and play optimally?

I really think you do not understand why I want a parser. I do not want a parser so that I can judge you. I already have a 3rd party option for that and don't care to 'call you out' or anything on bad DPS. I want a parser so that people can see for themselves that they are underperforming and, hopefully, make the conscious decision to improve. I don't want parsers to improve myself, or anyone I know, I want them to improve the general playerbase.

Am I missing something? Because I've done both and I certainly don't remember getting a special prize for them. Is it really that important to a dungeon run that these things happen? Do I get brownie points for getting both DPS's out of doll form with a holy and assize at the same time during the first dollhouse phase because I don't remember getting those either. Perhaps this time issue is another thing we will just have to agree to disagree on.

I guess we do disagree. I don't personally understand why you would play this game though. From my perspective, there are 2 major types of games. Cooperative and competitive. In a competitive game, your main goal is to do better than your opponent. In a cooperative game, as I see it, the main goal is to continuously work together to improve yourselves. I don't really understand how completing something with minimal effort is a fun activity for anyone, or how that could be considered a game - that sounds much more like a chore to me.

[Dement]

But I will turn your question back to you: Why should someone like me be forced to play under the shadow of a parser when you guys who want parsers can join groups of your own like minded individuals who want to use parsers to improve and play optimally?

As a PS4 player, I would like the opportunity to improve and play optimally without constantly having to badger someone else about how I am doing as I have no real way of knowing the answer to that myself. At a very very minimum a parser needs to be added to training dummies. Yes, I know that I can do the SSS dummies and calculate my DPS afterwards but that doesn't really allow me to make tweaks and see my performance as it happens. Thus I can't really tell did my DPS drop when I did the 10th GCD, the 20th GCD or the 60th GCD?

Additionally, in most endgame fights, everyone is forced to play under the shadow of a parser whether it is visible or not. Like it or not, DPS checks are a very real thing and the game is parsing to see if you meet the check or not. At the moment, though, we do not have the means of knowing where problems exist, should we fail the check, without the use of third party tools.

[Launched]

When they have that time to watch what others could do wrong in their rotation, they are not focussed enough to do their own job.

Not true for anyone that has more than one job leveled. It takes no effort to notice that the boss doesn't have Disembowel/Chaos Thrust/Phlebotomize up, or that you never see the Heavy Thrust icon beside the DRG's name, or that you never hear Flare's sound on big trash packs.

[Seraphix2407]

Fun is fine when EVERYONE has fun. Keep in mind many ps4 players, even pc players wants a parser. I'm not gonna repeat myself what I've said many times in this thread, but I will make it simple.

If you want to have fun, which we all aim for, which is good because thats why we play after all. But keep in mind, those guys in 66% enrage normal mode midas 4 had fun too, but look how that went. How is it fun for others players when you wipe on a faceroll content? I don't get it tbh.

[Reynhart]

You Said people would kick them for doing 100 dps less than optimized.

Yes, I said some people will complain about a DPS doing 100 less than expected. And you know why ? Because both leaders of my two last statics did.

I'm not grasping at hypothetical straws here...I don't want a parser forced on me, because this is exactly what made me quit raiding after I loved doing Coil. Make them official, and those people will have even less reason to shut their mouth.
There are other ways to improve, this is the best way to point fingers at someone.

I'd be perfectly happy to let anyone in the game monitor my numbers in any piece of content, on any job if it meant they were more likely to accept criticism and play correctly.

They won't. Those who accept criticism already will still be the same. Those offended by advice will probably be even more pissed if you give them irrefutable proof.

[Dement]

Yes, I said some people will complain about a DPS doing 100 less than expected. And you know why ? Because both leaders of my two last statics did.

I'm not grasping at hypothetical straws here...I don't want a parser forced on me, because this is exactly what made me quit raiding after I loved doing Coil. Make them official, and those people will have even less reason to shut their mouth.
There are other ways to improve, this is the best way to point fingers at someone.

Was your static having trouble meeting DPS checks? 100 DPS doesn't make a bit of difference if you're doing dungeons or if you're easily sailing through DPS checks. However, if your static is riding the cusp of clearing a fight like Faust and one person is doing 100 DPS less than expected... well... that's the 100 DPS which might let you clear the DPS check. However, if you don't have a way of knowing who that person is, you don't have a way of trying to help them bring their DPS up to standards to meet the requirement.

If you were clearing DPS checks and static leaders are still complaining about 100 less DPS, then you need to find a new static. Simple as that.

[Seraphix2407]

There are other ways to improve, this is the best way to point fingers at someone.

I know you mentioned it, but sadly and no lie, many make it sound like it happens in every 2/3 dungeons or fights you enter. Because that's their strongest arguement. My arguement againt's that they are more bad players than those who want to listen and take advice and need to see with their own yes how they perform, because we all know many are in denial. If it was your static and like Dement said, you should leave it if you could clear it with current 100 dpe less, if not then yes you should done that 100 dps, maybe that would get you the clear, but if it already did, then you should have left. You mentioned you don't want a parser to be forced on you, the static isn't forced on you either, that's your choice and yet you like to stick to it. #Makesnosense.

Also you dont need to point fingers at people who are bad, I simply just tell people if they undeperform and we need them to perfom better to skip phases that would be amazing to do so, or example beat enrage which is the main prio to beat. If I don't call them out for underperforming they would never know they needed to improve. I'm glad most people are willing to, but sadly more people who are in denial.

Edit: Looks like you left your statics, so then it shouldn't be a problem anymore then. Then again most statics expects people to play well, if it was 100 dps less and you turned out to wipe because of that 100 dps less, then that person should improve, but if you guys beat it, it shoudn't be a problem at all. I know if some one underperform in my group I'm okay killing it, however when we saw enrage first time beating alex 7 savage, 2 people had to step up. Doesn't matter their dps was okay, it was simply not enough to beat it. That's what not many get sadly and people keep talk about dungeons are a big deal which me and countless of others have said over 209349203898349 times we don't really care about.

Because we have very different philosophies on what makes a game fun. You like numbers and making sure everything is working as optimally as possible, whereas I just like to go in and have fun

Those guy doesn't need to be optimized like when I enter a dungeon. As long they are okay and doing decent I'm all good for it. However this picture shows also people have fun in the fight, what's even more painful is that it's rare to see 4 dps who are on pair, being super low on dps being in same group.
Now, lets say one of them happened to join another group with 3 decent dps, his dps still would been low, because he was either lazy or just don't give a damn and think it's okay for people do his part too. Just because you cleaned a normal alex or dungeon, doesn't mean what you do is acceptable. If I was low like these people, I would leave, without blinking my eyes, because in my nature I think of others, not myself. It's only selfish taking and doing the thing you think is fun, while you having fun, it ruins a whole group. I don't like that and it's a huge part of the community. If only they had a tool/add on to see by themselves, they would mostlikely wake up and admit.

[Reynhart]

Was your static having trouble meeting DPS checks?

I don't know. The last one made us stop at phase 1 of Thordan EX if we can't switch early enough for him (I don't remember the exact %)...and asked us to wipe on Seph EX as soon as one DPS died.
The previous one...well DPS obssession wasn't his only flaw, so...

You mentioned you don't want a parser to be forced on you, the static isn't forced on you either, that's your choice and yet you like to stick to it. #Makesnosense.

The static stopped. Hint : I'm not the only one tired of hearing "check your DPS" during learning tries of extreme primals.

[Kezy_Kaatapoh]

I don't know. The last one made us stop at phase 1 of Thordan EX if we can't switch early enough for him (I don't remember the exact %)...and asked us to wipe on Seph EX as soon as one DPS died.
The previous one...well DPS obssession wasn't his only flaw, so...

The static stopped. Hint : I'm not the only one tired of hearing "check your DPS" during learning tries of extreme primals.

Honestly, the stories you're providing have more to do with those people than parsers themselves. I understand having bad experiences, and I'm sorry you dealt with that, but as the old saying goes, "don't shoot the messenger," cause that's all a parser ever is: a messenger.

[Miste]

Is it just me or is the people who don't want parsers being a bit....paranoid? Maybe not the best word but why do you assume you'll be attacked for your DPS numbers in every DF run just because they add an official parser? I am not trying to be rude either but it seems like baseless fear mongering that FFXIV will turn into hell because people will be tormenting people left right and center about DPS.

Like I really don't know if this community is THAT toxic (and people are just assuming this will happen). Not saying there aren't jerks who will be a jerk with parsers but honestly they were probably going to be jerks anyway even without an official parser. In the end you don't need a parser to be a jerk, but using a parser doesn't automatically make you a jerk either.

As for statics...well when you join a static to run the hardest content available at the time in the game you kinda know that you are signing up to have your play style critiqued along with DPS numbers if you are a DPS job. Working as a team to complete difficult content often requires members to talk about what they all can do better to help the team succeed. No one is perfect so obviously being a jerk towards someone when they aren't performing up to your personal standards is not cool but not every static is like that at all.

So if your static leader abusively attacks you for not doing that extra 100 DPS then you should find a new static that is like-minded. There are different kinds of statics. You gotta find one you mesh with. On the other hand if your static leader only mentioned you could be doing more DPS and didn't abuse you for it then they were just pointing out to you that there is room for improvement if possible. If you feel like you cannot do any more than you already are then just say so. What happens after that will show you if you are with like-minded people or not.

Giving up on or avoiding raiding because of parsers is just pointless in my opinion. You are mistaking the parser itself as being the jerk when it's really the players you encountered that are jerks in your eyes. Find like-minded players who you can raid with. It can be hard but its not impossible if you try. If you really wanna work for it you could also make your own static and be the leader to create the kind of static you want to see.