Would you like an in-game parser?

[Frowny]

If people fail a dps check 8 times or more and maybe keep hitting enrage, do you think people won't get fed up? SE added those checks, do they expect the whole raid to disband each time?

So much this. It is really annoying failing a check because someone is falling behind, and as you said they often don't even know this.

[Yeol]

Official parse is better and more accurate than 3rd party parse.
If harassment is whats stopping us from getting an official parse, there are solutions.

Personal parse usage:
- Any dummy (including SSS).
- Dungeons, trials and raids (Normal and Hard versions).
This will help people practice, learn and improve (Including PS4/PS3 players)

Public parse usage:
- Trials and raid (Extreme and Savage).
Because DPs check is a thing during these contents. People have the right to know what is going wrong in order to fix it.

[KarstenS]

Kicking someone from a party for playing poorly isn't harassment.

We had already an official statement in the forum confirming this as a valid reason to kick.

Seems some already have forgotten this.

[RobbieH]

We had already an official statement in the forum confirming this as a valid reason to kick.

Seems some already have forgotten this.

I didn't say anything O_O

Anyway, valid reason or not is a dumb choice for a simple reason:

Kicking players that are doing a bad job, example, their first time playing that content and they're doing poorly is simply stupid because they have to learn it, if they get kicked how will they learn?

"Oh but there's guides", no there aren't, if you get a new patch and play the content on first few days there's no guides at all, when 3.4 launched there were no guides, only hours later written guides appeared, for example, for normal Alex.

People get kicked from normal Alex on first day, they won't learn, so they have to queue again and risk getting kicked again by doing the same mistake because they didn't learn it, and no one explained them either because they probably don't know as well.

Then people forget that not everyone is equally skilled and there's a big gap between skill level among players in this game, that why for World Firsts teams test (key word, test, hence need training and experience) to see who are the best players in the FC, or even the server is the players choose to join those FCs.

Kicking players while they are still learning is absolutely stupid even from an official perspective because if it happens too much (they're actually bad players) they'll give up on the game and subs will be lost for the sake of epeen that can't be bothered to help/explain people that are learning.

There i said something now.

[Legion88]

Anyway, valid reason or not is a dumb choice for a simple reason:

Kicking players that are doing a bad job, example, their first time playing that content and they're doing poorly is simply stupid because they have to learn it, if they get kicked how will they learn?

Counter example: What is with the 1-2-3-DDs? I don't feel like i should someone explain on 60 how a rotation works, because he had 60 levels just to read his skills and figure out a suboptimalbutgood rotation by himself or look for a job guide or ask people outside of the duties.

Playing poorly isn't "you lost enochian/BotD while learning the fight"*.
Playing poorly is "spamming Thrust-Combo/Ice Mage at 60"*.
*Just examples for this particular subject

[RobbieH]

Counter example: What is with the 1-2-3-DDs? I don't feel like i should someone explain on 60 how a rotation works, because he had 60 levels just to read his skills and figure out a suboptimalbutgood rotation by himself or look for a job guide or ask people outside of the duties.

Playing poorly isn't "you lost enochian/BotD while learning the fight"*.
Playing poorly is "spamming Thrust-Combo/Ice Mage at 60"*.
*Just examples for this particular subject

Do Dungeon bosses have enrage?

Is everyone else doing proper DPS in normal Alex? Then you shouldn't care about 1-2-3 DDs.

[Legion88]

Do Dungeon bosses have enrage?

Unfortunately not...

Is everyone else doing proper DPS in normal Alex? Then you shouldn't care about 1-2-3 DDs.

So you are defending intentionally poor play only topped by AA-DDs or AFK-DDs?
And what do you refer to with proper? The maximum potential DPS for their gear or just enough to carry his own weight? For me proper DPS is the second one.

[RobbieH]

Unfortunately not...

Then what's the reason for kicking, let's say -- bad DDs in a Dungeon? It's not like they will stand in AOE or any damage mechanic intentionally considering they know them to begin with, just need patience, boss will die.

If you care so much about dungeon clear time go DPS yourself instead of queue as Healer or tank.

That's why i play summoner on Dungeon so i can melt adds, and Summoner single target DPS is also pretty good, not the best but pretty good.

So you are defending intentionally poor play only topped by AA-DDs or AFK-DDs?
And what do you refer to with proper? The maximum potential DPS for their gear or just enough to carry his own weight? For me proper DPS is the second one.

AFK should be kicked, but don't bring other subjects just to backup your claim, we're talking about poor DPS players not AFKs.

Considering we're talking about Alex normal you don't need top DPS on it by anyone, but one isn't expecting to go there to slack to begin with, it's not like a great DPS goes there to slack and do 50% of what he can do.

The problem here is, most healers won't DPS, MT won't change stances during certain parts where the boss isn't going to harm them, or can simply use DPS stance after aggro is secure and pop cooldowns to compensate, even most players who like to complain about bad players don't do this themselves, not to mention when the boss comes back and/or drops something that helps with DPS is for the MT to go directly in front of boss before Boss is available to target, since melee will probably be in positional spot already, not doing so will result in DPS loss caused by the MT, but this is something rarely seen, again we're talking about Normal, not Savage.

I'll give you an example, Nidhogg normal, which is far better than Sophia normal for second chance points, almost everytime i queue for it there's Bonus, Sophia seems to be about 20-33% chance for bonus.

However it is also harder than Sophia, because people seem to like to die there, so i go as SCH.

DPS ilvl between i210 and i220, one doesn't move to dodge a single thing (DRG), one DPS (Bard) had some gear bellow i200, was getting hit hard by stuff and spent most time dead ((especially during dives) even after Stoneskin and Adloq), the second DRG was doing fine until he got Jump-locked and died.

First run, not enough DPS during Adds (i was DPS as SCH, PLD was in DPS stance too), WHM was chilling.

Second run, Not enough DPS on adds, wipe again.

Third run, 2 DPS dead for a long time before Adds (died multiple times) adds finally go down, not long after the Boss comes back, 3 DPS dead already, then WHM dead.

I proceed to LB3 heal, before Boss died 2 DPS were dead again, it still went down after all the lack of DPS, and let's not forget it has enrage.

Sometimes a single person can make the difference, but people expect everyone to perform great when those same people are poor players themselves.

And i didn't vote kick, end of story.

There's this one time (somewhere in the last 5 runs i was doing in Research Facility (150 Lore dungeon) so i could finish Ninja i240 Anima), i went ahead and trigger the elevator after 2nd boss to make it a little bit faster, i got warned by the tank not to pull again (apparently triggering the elevator is a pull) or he would kick me, i proceed to ask how is that a pull and got kicked.

Despite reporting that event, do i need to explain myself how dumb and mean people can be? I was melting adds as SMN, i was doing 3 times more DPS than the Ninja on boss, and i got booted by bad players.

As you can see even "decent" players get kicked.

This isn't about people being bad at all, it's about epeen and idiotic players who think they're good when they're not.

[Brownondorf]

I would totally love an official ingame parser. The amount of people having no clue how to play dps is totally unbelievable.

During expert/60 roulette (playing bard):

- Most of the time i'm doing more than TWICE the damage of the other DPS

- Sometimes my damage is higher than the 3 other members COMBINED! (yes even when the healer dps)

- It's extremely rare to see a Dragoon or Ninja use any AOE... Most Ninja don't give you goad if you don't ask and even if you do they don't even know what it is...

- I've seen Dragoons and Ninjas with Sophia's Weapons and good gear still with their TP bar full during the super massive pull before Gubal HM last boss... seriously, how does that king of people end up with Sophia weapons?

- Most player with i250 gear do the dps of a good player in i180 gear...

- Some player have trouble keeping up with my DPS when i'm playing ASTRO...

I think having ingame parser will definitely improve the overall community.

[SpookyGhost]

Kicking players that are doing a bad job, example, their first time playing that content and they're doing poorly is simply stupid because they have to learn it, if they get kicked how will they learn?

Agreed, though generally as long as you say "first time" you're held to a lower standard than a person who's cleared/has experienced the whole fight.

Is everyone else doing proper DPS in normal Alex? Then you shouldn't care about 1-2-3 DDs.

If you one-shot the encounter then there's no real way to kick a 1-2-3 DPS so they get a free pass. This, however, doesn't mean that it's okay for one member of the team to kick rocks while the rest of the team is putting in effort. It's like playing basketball and one of your team members decides he wants to do cartwheels - even if you win, it wasn't cool of that dude to goof off. XIV, and to an extent most modern MMOs, don't have a focus on teamwork anymore so people think that they don't need to work as a team. "Sure, DPS A isn't pulling his weight, but we beat the boss so why does it matter?", you think and then DPS A goes off to join other DF groups with more of his kind and then DPS A's mentality floods half a group forcing that group to constantly wipe because of them. Had they learned what they were doing wasn't a good thing they would actually try to improve, and if you can visually see that your DPS numbers are lower than the rest of the DPS you'll know exactly what you need to improve on.

Like I said if you're new to an encounter then it's fine to pull low numbers because you're learning the fight. Once you've cleared the fight, though, you should aim to be doing better at it - even in stuff like Alexander NM.

The problem here is, most healers won't DPS, MT won't change stances during certain parts where the boss isn't going to harm them, or can simply use DPS stance after aggro is secure and pop cooldowns to compensate, even most players who like to complain about bad players don't do this themselves, not to mention when the boss comes back and/or drops something that helps with DPS is for the MT to go directly in front of boss before Boss is available to target, since melee will probably be in positional spot already, not doing so will result in DPS loss caused by the MT, but this is something rarely seen, again we're talking about Normal, not Savage.

This is partly true, but partly wrong. Yes, healers should be DPSing, tanks should be stance dancing, etc. etc. But that doesn't excuse DPS to play poorly. As an example if you have proper healer DPS, proper tank DPS, and 3 out of your 4 DPS are doing alright... then that 4th one who's doing cartwheels is making the run slower, forcing you to see more mechanics, and increasing the odds that you'll wipe or someone will die to them. The shorter the fight, the better. With all those same conditions and all the DPS putting in work then you've got a much more stable, condensed fight that has a higher chance of getting beaten.