Would you like an in-game parser?

[RiyahArp]

Never said I was a good healer and all I said was that i knew the mechanics. Not for sure why you think that I believe myself a good healer when I know I'm not. That's a pretty big assumption you have going there lol.

Healing is a lot harder overall, because the other classes are very limited in their ability to correct mistakes. If someone screws up and gets hit by a fireball in O1s, only the healer can save them and its a split second decision. Maybe its a healer/dps + tank argument-the latter really have it easier due to it being self-contained more.

If someone goes wrong way with thunder mark, it's easily doable to recover.

It's harder than you think. The reaction time is pretty small because it can cascade to kill the next person even if you heal it, since it leaves them at low hp enough.

[AphraelAmarantha]

snip

Yeah, sorry, I want trying to sound like that (emotions run high for me when I see threads like this, so I usually don't reply in them) but yes, I've kinda noticed it's a circular argument here. One side will say one thing all the time and the other side does the same but the opposite thus it goes round and round. Its why this thread is at 193 pages lol.

Again though, I think it comes back down to this: what can the devs do to force people who aren't willing to learn to actually learn? Should they do like Ult Coil and do a flat out lockout until they beat Savage (I have no problem with this tbh, I will never be good enough to get that far lol). Should the next expansion have a totally new difficulty curve for the msq, requiring players to know how to do things so they can be prepared for higher difficulty content? I don't think there is an easy answer to this and unfortunately, as I said previously, you can't stop the people who aren't willing to learn to buy the game and screw others over.

[Yeol]

... for people like me who can't memorize all the stuff that happens in a scripted battle like this or doing things over and over doesn't help them? I write things down after watching vids but that doesn't help me if I don't have enough down time to look at my sheet.

No problem at all
If you play with friends/static, there is usually someone giving callouts. So you don't have to memorize encounters. Eventually, It'll become like a song that plays in your head. You will remember bits of it at least.

[akaneakki]

Healing is a lot harder overall, because the other classes are very limited in their ability to correct mistakes. If someone screws up and gets hit by a fireball in O1s, only the healer can save them and its a split second decision. Maybe its a healer/dps + tank argument-the latter really have it easier due to it being self-contained more.



It's harder than you think. The reaction time is pretty small because it can cascade to kill the next person even if you heal it, since it leaves them at low hp enough.

I usually throw asylum and medica2. So if it happens I use instant aoe heal.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

4) Tank busters. These come out very fast and I don't see them coming because I'm not looking at the cast bar when they pop up because I'm paying attention to health levels. It's usually when I'm dpsing is when I usually see it coming.

... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

You determine difficulty on the basic of the most rudimentary tank mechanic that defines every single fight outside dungeon bosses? I'll be blunt. If this is difficult for you, you aren't ready to heal EX primals. Your personal struggles does not make a fight hard, but simply means you lack the experience. Nidhogg and Sophia were much harder fights when I was new to raiding. That doesn't make them difficult but shows my inexperience. Regardless, Tank busters are entirely scripted and among the easiest mechanics to deal with because they have little if any variance. Susano will always use Stormspliter at the beginning, and will use it again at the same point unless you skip the buster entirely. Good tanks will mitigate through this with little problem.

The rest of your post boils down to you lacking experience and conflating that to mean the fights themselves are difficult. You being unable to see the markers only adds credence to the above argument; you need more experience.

[AphraelAmarantha]

snip.

ok so say I do the fight 900 times and I still have the same problems, would that still be no experience or is it because I have bad eyes and I cant see the markers or I cant memorize when the tank buster comes out and so on? Or am I retarded and I need to see a doctor because I can't play like most people? Just trying to figure out what you are trying to say here since you don't seem to understand why I have issues after I already explained it.

[MoroMurasaki]

I'm not sure how this thread turned into a debate on EX primal difficulty byt I do have two short stories to share about Susie and Lakshmi.

During a Susano farm I was healing with Tridus (so both healers rather competent, albeit not Savage progression people) I wound up laying the cloud AoE right over the safe zone right before the Sword phase.

We recovered without any deaths.

During a Lakshmi I was healing on my own we had farmed some for about two hours and the PF was doing great. My cohealer asked if I would be okay solo healing the fight so she could go on RDM to speed things up. Long story short OT didn't stay ahead of me on enmity and I cleaved the raid with the second threat cone, killed every DPS. I only lived because the MT PLD covered me. He died to an auto attack seconds later. We didn't even wipe! Got closer to enrage than I've been in a long time but still.

If these huge mistakes (including a mostly dead group) can be overcome by self-proclaimed casual healers I don't think the argument can be reasonably made that the 4.0 ex primals are not faceroll.

ok so say I do the fight 900 times and I still have the same problems, would that still be no experience or is it because I have bad eyes and I cant see the markers or I cant memorize when the tank buster comes out and so on? Or am I retarded and I need to see a doctor because I can't play like most people? Just trying to figure out what you are trying to say here since you don't seem to understand why I have issues after I already explained it.

Do you focus target the boss so you can see the cast for Stormsplitter? Because that cast bar is really long, I can Cure II a tank up, DB him and precast another Cure II to hit with the damage pretty reliably during it.

No one is calling you "retarded" people are saying based on your current issues you need more experience if you expect to play on the same level as other people who have more experience.

[RiyahArp]

I usually throw asylum and medica2. So if it happens I use instant aoe heal.

I usually save asylum for the ukehi after it, since it hits multiple times. More often I just have to swift or precast medica or even c3 to get people up after a flubbed bolt, and then a fast cure to the next marked target. But either way you need to react pretty fast to read that the person doesn't see he has the marker, and then act correctly in a matter of seconds. It's not really easy to do this, especially after the sixth run.

If these huge mistakes (including a mostly dead group) can be overcome by self-proclaimed casual healers I don't think the argument can be reasonably made that the 4.0 ex primals are not faceroll.

..if you are farming ex primals when they are relevant, to the point where you feel ok solo healing them, you aren't a casual healer, good lord.

[HyoMinPark]

ok so say I do the fight 900 times and I still have the same problems, would that still be no experience or is it because I have bad eyes and I cant see the markers or I cant memorize when the tank buster comes out and so on?

Honestly? It tells me that you lack awareness. If, after 900 runs, you still can’t figure out when Susano is casting/readying Stormsplitter, then that speaks to your lack of raid awareness. And, unless that improves, then you will be unable to do any other Extreme primals that are even remotely more challenging than him. And I’m not saying that to be mean or anything, and I’m not saying that that’s the case now. But you asked, and I thought I would provide an honest opinion.

I know that everyone learns things differently, and at different paces. But, I still fail to understand your reasoning behind this statement in another post:

Unfortunately, doing it over and over again isn't productive for me and thus why it doesn't make it easier for me. Not everyone learns the same way.

Learning occurs through repeated exposure and practice. Like with your previous example regarding education, and some learning a subject at a slower pace: yeah, they learn at a slower pace, but how do they learn? By practicing; by studying. You don’t learn things instantly. If these fights aren’t getting any easier for you, then it may be that you just aren’t able to do them. If you are really trying your absolute hardest, studying the fights, asking people for advice on how to improve your performance... if you are doing everything within your power and still cannot keep track of a simple tankbuster, then you are just not ready for the content.

And, again. I’m not saying that in any way to sound or be mean.

Or am I retarded and I need to see a doctor because I can't play like most people?

There was really no need for this sentence. At all.

Just trying to figure out what you are trying to say here since you don't seem to understand why I have issues after I already explained it.

How are you dealing with the specific issues? Do you try to juggle healing and DPS? Have you tried to just heal and see if that eases your stress levels? Have you Focus Targeted Susano to try and watch for his tankbuster cast? Have you set up your HUD in a way to make it easier to keep track of the things you need to keep track of (MT, party health, boss’s HP bar/cast bar, etc.)? Have you increased the size for things like enhancements and enfeeblements (this would help when looking out for the Churning/dice debuff)? You’ve mentioned what you’re having trouble with, but you haven’t really explained anything you have done to try and alleviate the problems.

[Sebazy]

The thing about people who believe the skill curve should be like that is they don't realize not everyone will power through content if it is hard. Right now we have a lot of casuals and a few raiders; with this skill curve, we'd just end up with fewer casuals, and still few raiders; you'd just end up sifting out more people along the way instead of having two tiered endgame.

Sorry to dredge this up a bit, but since this is really the root of part of the debate at hand, the difficulty curve thing is actually worth addressing in detail really.

Whilst I personally think Pharos Sirius a fun dungeon, I do also think that the nerf calls were warranted in some respects, the pirate boss threw debuff stacks like candy, the bird boss just confused people as to how to deal with it whereas Siren would have almost been perfect if her dash/donut move was just a little bit more forgiving (Or /gasp, choreographed).

Rather I'd like to bring the original Amdapor Keep to your attention. That in my opinion was the perfect expert dungeon. Why?

it wasn't excessively hard or complex, I'd argue that the current crop of dungeon bosses are far far more technical than what we had in AK back then. Rather what made it a fantastic dungeon was that it copied and drilled you in key mechanics that you would later need to deal with Titan HM and Garuda. And by drilled I mean that whilst the mechanics were pretty simple, the dungeon wouldn't let you slack off. If you ignored stuff, it'd kill you or cripple your healer's GCDs whilst they fight to keep you alive.

Compare that to Skalla where it's really quite viable to just ignore a very significant percentage of the AoEs and such.

TLDR: AK taught players the foundation of skills to deal with Titan HM, Kugane and Skalla teach people that it's very viable to watch another screen whilst mashing 1-2-3.

The perceived difficulty of 4.0's primals is somewhat irrelevant really, the issue here is the disparity between them and the expert roulettes. Those dungeon's don't need to be harder, they just need to show players relevant mechanics in a manner that makes them pay attention.