Would you like an in-game parser?

[AphraelAmarantha]

I love how everyone is saying "Its easy!" and then list all these issues that people seem to have with end game content. All of you seem to be contradicting yourselves.

Just to contribute to the current discussion, yes I've farmed Susano'o quite a bit, both as RDM and as WHM. I know the fight pretty well. However, that doesn't make it easy. I still think it's a considerable challenge and i still see wipes all the time, even when everyone knows what to do. Even if they are the "easiest" EX primals, the fights themselves are not easy. This is why people get mad and start calling people like the ones here elitists as well because they don't get it.

No seriously, you people don't get it.

For people like them or me for that matter, these fights are difficult, even if we know the mechanics like the back of our hands. The only reason you guys call the fights "easy" because of your skewed perspective based upon having far better skill than the rest of us, hence why you get called elitists. It's like a girl who learns things easily talking down to a person who is having problems learning the same subject. The girl thinks its easy to learn and do while the other person thinks its the hardest thing in the world even though they are trying their hardest to learn the subject at hand. Maybe once in a while consider that not everyone has the same concept of easy or difficulty that you guys have, just maybe consider it.

[HoodRat]

It's like a girl who learns things easily talking down to a person who is having problems learning the same subject. The girl thinks its easy to learn and do while the other person thinks its the hardest thing in the world even though they are trying their hardest to learn the subject at hand. Maybe once in a while consider that not everyone has the same concept of easy or difficulty that you guys have, just maybe consider it.

But according to you

For people like them or me for that matter, these fights are difficult, even if we know the mechanics like the back of our hands.

The other person in your example, while thinking the subject is the hardest thing in the world, will still be claiming they know it like the back of their hand...

Which is exactly how it happens in this game. Like that one pld who was complaining about getting kicked from Shinryu Ex for not having high dps. "I have 9 weapons I've cleared multiple times I know exactly what I'm doing," yet their best was gray iirc, so clearly they didn't know what they were doing.

And as I said earlier, even if people attempt to help people learn/do better/whatever, the helper is usually attacked. So you can say all you want about how people don't learn as easily as others, it doesn't matter at all if they don't even want to learn in the first place.

[AphraelAmarantha]

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Knowing how to do something and screwing it up is not mutually exclusive. People aren't perfect and mistakes will happen. To me it sounds like that tank was having a bad day. It happens.

I do agree with you about people who aren't willing to learn. The question though is what can a game developer do to force people to learn, even if said people don't want to learn? You can't stop them from buying the game and screwing people over with their bad attitudes.

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Let me list the things that I think make the fight a challenge for people like me.

1) A ton of mechanics happening all at once like aoes with dice and thundercloud. Especially if I am also trying to heal the tank but my oGCD are on cd and so I cant cast a quick spell to heal them. Or I am trying to get Medica II back up but i have to keep moving and I don't have an available quickcast. this is particularly difficult near the last 10 percent of Susano's health bar.
2) The purple marker for the lightning when you have to dash across to the other side. It's too small and I can barely see it past the other stuff that is going on. I have to be constantly looking at the party to make sure hp levels are good and no one is dying and the battlefield making sure I don't have the stupid marker on.
3) Same with the dice, I cant see the marker until almost too late. When grouped together with other people, it cant be seen very well.
4) Tank busters. These come out very fast and I don't see them coming because I'm not looking at the cast bar when they pop up because I'm paying attention to health levels. It's usually when I'm dpsing is when I usually see it coming.
5) I understand that most fights are scripted but I cannot memorize all of the events that are going to happen in the fight and when they occur at what minute or second. I would write them down but I don't have time to look down from the screen for a second before someone is eating an attack that needs healed through and if I do have a moment, I'm not going to be looking down because everyone expects me to be dpsing at that point.

Those are the main issues, if I think of more I will let you know. Yes I know the mechanics but it doesn't make the fight any easier.

[akaneakki]

Yes I know the mechanics but it doesn't make the fight any easier.

Honestly that makes no sense. Why doesn't it make it easier? Doing it over again and again and again makes it easier? Isn't that how you master something? Like education, you need those things stuck in your head till you can do it without an issue. I'm not saying to treat the game as university, all I'm saying is, you make it sound like it's random mechanics dishing out everytime they happen or you barely have time to react, which you do have time to.

1: There is a mechanic where thunder cloud on a random corner happens, which you need to dodge away from the group, however, that thundercloud mechanic doesn't happen with dice. So you can move to a side that makes it less walk back to boss, aka you do it in the front of the boss. Like first one as a melee, I get pushed in front of the boss, so I don't need to walk all the way back from the entrance to the boss, so I have more uptime. You don't need to medica 2 asap either, you have time to heal them before anything happens, if they get hit by dice that's their own fault and honestly standing still shoulnd't even be a issue at all. With the current gear, you don't even die from it.
2: Thunder marker with the dash is so easy to see, honestly you don't even need time to see it. Because if its not in the front, its mostlikely on the side which you should also see easily and if it's not there, its behind you, so you have time. There is aboslutely no mechanics that happens that fast in that fight for you to need to react with lightingspeed, so no.
3: When dice you don't even need to be stacked, the aoe heals reach easily, so why are you stacking yourself up? There are many fights in this game like teathers where you want to split with the other player, which you don't want to stack on top of each other to make it easier to go on a direction you both go on opposite side. .
4: Tank busters are SCRIPTED. They are SLOW cast and you can easily excog as a sch on a tank before it happens and they get healed fast. Honestly this is why I KNOW you don't know the fight as you claim. The fact you say the tank buster is fast, makes you not as good as you think you are in the fight. The fight is so extremely scripted, there is no excuse for not healing the tank in time or even react to the buster.
5: same with 4 pretty much. Honestly.... if you done a fight many times it should be stuck in your head, that's how it is for me at least. Like this game has a lot of fun fights. but for some people like myself they get boring after a while, if you farm them at least, because it's the same thing over again and again.

There is a difference knowing the mechanics than remembering when they come and why they even exist.Just because you know the mechanics doesn't mean you know the fight . There is a difference there, like a big difference. If a great healer knows the fight in and out, he wil be avaible to push 2k easily there, while a healer who knows mechanic but not the fight woulnd't try to push as high or not even avaible to, because they have the same mind as yourself; aoe is random, tank buster is too fast etc etc. which they are not.
Example is when a person comes to a group saying they know the mecanics, yet they join and can't do the fight. That means they don't know the fight, sure they know mechanics, well how it works in some sort of way, but the fight? Nope. That's what makes the difference between good and bad players. Good players know WHY and how a mechanic work aka know the fight, while a decent player or a bad one knows the mechanics but doesn't know how the fight itself is.

Edit: Like O1s, why does a whm do benediction on tank or fully heal the group when charbydis is happening right after aoe? What's the point to full up a group of hp when the healers know they will be at 1 hp again?

For them they think its an easy thing. For others this is probably extremely difficult. However, their post comes off condescending and not at all attempting to think that "oh, maybe its a little difficult for them to set that up"

It's a tanks job to move the boss, so it should be easy. Moving it slightly to the left for them shouldn't be a issue at all. And how on earth is that elitist? Please explain.

[AphraelAmarantha]

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Unfortunately, doing it over and over again isn't productive for me and thus why it doesn't make it easier for me. Not everyone learns the same way.

Never said I was a good healer and all I said was that i knew the mechanics. Not for sure why you think that I believe myself a good healer when I know I'm not. That's a pretty big assumption you have going there lol.

I do agree with you that there is a difference in knowing the mechanics and knowing the fight. I do know the fight is scripted, and as I told you before, I can't memorize that kind of timing, usually I have to write things down. For me though, this game moves pretty fast, faster than I can analyze what is going on at a given moment in most ex battles and that doesn't give me time to look at my sheet and go "uhm what comes next again?" for the next ten seconds.

Also, you think it shouldn't be an issue to move the boss but maybe some tanks do have issues getting a boss to move. If this wasn't an issue, I doubt you would even come across this problem unless they were trolling.

[akaneakki]

Also, you think it shouldn't be an issue to move the boss but maybe some tanks do have issues getting a boss to move. If this wasn't an issue, I doubt you would even come across this problem unless they were trolling.

Well I'm only going out by what you said, you said you know the mechanics, which often for so many people means they know the fight. As for the tanks who cant move the boss, they just cant seem to read the chat or even try. The main issue is what we just talked about, they don't know the fight, which is a often issue with many players in this game along with not doing good enough dmg. Hence why threads like this exist.

[RiyahArp]

Never said I was a good healer and all I said was that i knew the mechanics. Not for sure why you think that I believe myself a good healer when I know I'm not. That's a pretty big assumption you have going there lol.

Healing is a lot harder overall, because the other classes are very limited in their ability to correct mistakes. If someone screws up and gets hit by a fireball in O1s, only the healer can save them and its a split second decision. Maybe its a healer/dps + tank argument-the latter really have it easier due to it being self-contained more.

If someone goes wrong way with thunder mark, it's easily doable to recover.

It's harder than you think. The reaction time is pretty small because it can cascade to kill the next person even if you heal it, since it leaves them at low hp enough.

[akaneakki]

Healing is a lot harder overall, because the other classes are very limited in their ability to correct mistakes. If someone screws up and gets hit by a fireball in O1s, only the healer can save them and its a split second decision. Maybe its a healer/dps + tank argument-the latter really have it easier due to it being self-contained more.



It's harder than you think. The reaction time is pretty small because it can cascade to kill the next person even if you heal it, since it leaves them at low hp enough.

I usually throw asylum and medica2. So if it happens I use instant aoe heal.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

4) Tank busters. These come out very fast and I don't see them coming because I'm not looking at the cast bar when they pop up because I'm paying attention to health levels. It's usually when I'm dpsing is when I usually see it coming.

... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

You determine difficulty on the basic of the most rudimentary tank mechanic that defines every single fight outside dungeon bosses? I'll be blunt. If this is difficult for you, you aren't ready to heal EX primals. Your personal struggles does not make a fight hard, but simply means you lack the experience. Nidhogg and Sophia were much harder fights when I was new to raiding. That doesn't make them difficult but shows my inexperience. Regardless, Tank busters are entirely scripted and among the easiest mechanics to deal with because they have little if any variance. Susano will always use Stormspliter at the beginning, and will use it again at the same point unless you skip the buster entirely. Good tanks will mitigate through this with little problem.

The rest of your post boils down to you lacking experience and conflating that to mean the fights themselves are difficult. You being unable to see the markers only adds credence to the above argument; you need more experience.

[AphraelAmarantha]

snip.

ok so say I do the fight 900 times and I still have the same problems, would that still be no experience or is it because I have bad eyes and I cant see the markers or I cant memorize when the tank buster comes out and so on? Or am I retarded and I need to see a doctor because I can't play like most people? Just trying to figure out what you are trying to say here since you don't seem to understand why I have issues after I already explained it.