Would you like an in-game parser?

[Miracle_Diva]

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Or people being told that it would be nice if they work on their rotation to improve gameplay and still cry that they were harrased.
I don't really understand how *positive encounters* are being monitored cuz people like to complain and mostly no one run to post here - hey it was a very good fight - everytime instance was cleared, so it doesn't mean negative encounters outweigh positive.

[SenSaitoru]

Or people being told that it would be nice if they work on their rotation to improve gameplay and still cry that they were harrased.

Yeah, I honestly don't understand why some people feel harrased when given feedback. I once had to ask a paladin to use flash more and was met with the all too famous "you don't pay my sub" and how I was a healer and not the tank.

[HyoMinPark]

Yeah, I honestly don't understand why some people feel harrased when given feedback. I once had to ask a paladin to use flash more and was met with the all too famous "you don't pay my sub" and how I was a healer and not the tank.

I think it's almost human nature for people to respond negatively when they think they're being "attacked"; people generally don't like being told they're doing something wrong, especially if they feel they're doing something right. I can be the same way sometimes--try telling me I'm doing things wrong on a melee job and I generally concede because I don't play melee so I probably am doing something wrong. Try telling me I'm doing something wrong on my main (BRD), and I will probably get a bit bristled by it, depending on how it's worded. I don't respond with cheap insults or subscription comments though.

[Kyuuen]

Contrary to what I think you’re thinking, I’m not trying to prove anything. All I am saying is that personal anecdotes can never be a solid basis for an objective argument. I have never pulled out any statistics from thin air to try and justify why I am “pro-parser”, but I see such behavior frequently from the opposite side, as well as using their own personal experiences (anecdotes) to cloud their judgment rather than looking at a situation objectively. That is what I take issue with: people making up statistics to further their own arguments (I’ve already touched on this in other posts in this thread); using the reasoning “parsers breed toxicity”, but then proceed in the same breath to demand SE “ban everyone who parses on the spot”, calls pro-parsers names (again, “parsetard” is now a personal favorite)...basically just combating toxicity with their own toxicity and trying to claim only the pro-parser crowd is the toxic crowd; or people that try to pass off their personal experiences as pervasive facts.

Fair enough, jumped into an argument I should have paid more attention to there.

Using this logic, though, you could simultaneously set up an argument against Party Finder the same way you would parsers:

Example
“Parsers breed toxicity and discrimination on the basis of a person’s DPS.”
—Party Finder is already full of parties with minimum ilevel requirements of i330/i335 for fights like Susano Ex or Lakshmi Ex, which need no where near that requirement to actually clear; those parties are discriminating against individuals that fail to meet those item levels, indirectly discriminating upon players’ DPS, since a lot of people assume higher item level = higher DPS (Tridus already touched on this).
—Party Finder is full of parties that have locked job slots to certain jobs or say “no doubles”, discriminating against other jobs or players that want to only play one job but can’t because they’re either locked out of the party or it would be a double job (though for Savage, I understand completely the “no doubles” for roles because DPS loot—tanks and heals aren’t so lucky, unfortunately).
—Party Finder is full of parties that have in the descriptions “Wipe on Phase 1 and disband”; one could say these are “potentially toxic” environments if one is following the whole “Skip Soar or disband” meme that was prevalent during 3.55 when ZurvanEx came out.

Party Finder already has the potential to breed toxicity and discrimination, and already had the potential to alienate parts of the community, yet it is still in this game. Why should a parser be treated any different? Why treat one tool differently and prohibit it, but allow another to “pass”? They’re both tools, are they not? One can mistreat the Party Finder the same way one would mistreat a parser, just the execution of said mistreatment would be different. But the concept is the same.

My only argument against this would be that one is already a part of the game and it's systems, the other is a wish list item. As I said there's metric that we; as the users, don't get to see and that's any and all complaints that get filtered to the XIV team from within the game, pertaining to the abuse of systems in game or lack thereof (as I said it's an unknown, and I have to concede that this is possibly just being blown out of proportion).

I dunno, there's some reason for their decision against it. I know Yoshi has expressed similar concerns in what's been stated throughout the thread thus far.

[MihaelB]

I made this thread long ago when I was on a NA server grinding the relic in 'Expert Roulettes' where the general population of players were below the average and many not knowing their rotations.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-system./page8

I moved to Tonberry a few months after and akin to the opening introduction of the thread, I stopped caring about what happened in NA as JP standards were much more higher.

Relating back to the topic of this thread, I switched to a new laptop and haven't downloaded a parser, allowing ignorance to how players generally play. If the dungeon is going slow, you know someone DPSes slow or someone isn't DPSing. If it goes quick, you know everyone knows their thing. Knowing exact numbers will only drag you down mentally and morally in a game and this is what this is, a 'game'.

I thoroughly enjoy the game more being ignorant to who is doing what and who is slacking in my 'teams'. As horrible as it is, many players will never change and you can only do what you do best until the game decides to alleviate their gameplay level from casual to something higher.

Some people spend over 10+ hours a day on here in pure high level play and they can keep their private parsers like a tool for their gameplay, like any other tool a specialist needs. Not much in this game needs a high level of DPS in order to clear and it is mainly during grind(relic) phases where we need speed.

[Selova]

snip.

I agree with you on the point that you don't need to see actual numbers on a parser to be able to tell if someone doesn't know how to play their job. I can tell when a dragoon isn't using their DS+ST combo on large trash pulls, same with monks and rockbreaker, ect. If you are familiar enough with most of the jobs it's glaringly obvious when someone has no idea what they are doing, or they do and just contribute it to their own "playstyle".


The only part i don't agree with is your point on knowing exact numbers and how it drags you down. This depends on the person entirely. I always like to see a visual representation on how much I'm contributing in group content as well as pushing myself to get better each time, I personally enjoy that aspect of mmo's, others that don't give one lick about the number game or pushing themselves to improve, that's fine, you do you. It's a game and games should be fun for the person playing, but everyone has a differen't take on what makes the game fun for them personally. That's really all i wanted to say. Cheers.

[Zeonsilt]

I mean, it's a lot more useful to be able to say "we hit the enrage because you're doing 1000 DPS"

Which is a "reportable offense", according to general mindset.

I'm on PS4.

That's another part for "why i want an official parser". Especially if later XboxOne/etc players join us.
Official parser is a good thing for console players. In the past a PS4 player (Ninja) asked me on my server to help him with testing 2 different rotations and other stuff. In the end his DPS increased from 3800-3900(his old rotation) to 4300+ (his new rotation), he was pretty happy about it. He was able to beat O4S SSS Dummy after that.

I want to say this now I have never done end game content so my opinion may not matter but I'll type it anyway. I can see both sides of the argument here, but I noticed people said people being harassed from parsers is not very common as the "anti parser" player claim it is. To these people it seems even once is enough to make them anti parse.Harrasment is not always the same for everyone, a player could have been told "you suck quit the game" or have a large amount of insults thrown at them and if they have anxiety or depression it could seem much worse to them than others would see it. I know for a fact there are people who parse that are great people. I forgot to mention something if someone tells you you're doing something to wrong please dont over react and throw insults try to keep an open mind and you may improve.

Good post o/

The main things, that most "anti-parse" people don't understand (or ignore on purpose) are:
- We only need parser for Savage and [latest] Extremes.
- Nobody will force that into Expert dungeons/8-man Normal/24-man/casual content or whatever.
- People already parse in most Savage and Extreme content, adding official parser will help console players and make things more open and fair for everyone.

How many people, who raid Savage (for example) are against parsers? Haven't seen too many, honestly.

[HoodRat]

- We only need parser for Savage and [latest] Extremes.
- Nobody will force that into Expert dungeons/8-man Normal/24-man/casual content or whatever.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I believe the line needs to be drawn somewhere. I don't expect anywhere near perfect play from people in df, even I am nowhere near playing perfectly. But at the same time, I regularly outdps actual dps I get paired with in df as a tank, and my healer friends can usually outdps them too. On a few occasions, I have even seen people in current endgame content perform worse than what they should in previous endgame content (ie. a brd in HW expert roulette doing only 300 dps on trash pulls and a mnk on Temple of the Fist doing only 2k on trash and 1k on bosses). I don't think many people go into dungeons or normal mode raids with the intention of telling people that their damage is low, but with this level of play there's a high chance they're gonna hear it.

[Sebazy]

If the dungeon is going slow, you know someone DPSes slow or someone isn't DPSing. If it goes quick, you know everyone knows their thing. Knowing exact numbers will only drag you down mentally and morally in a game and this is what this is, a 'game'.

That's something that's down to a player's individual mentality really. I log and record everything out of habit and frankly, other people's DPS barely registers for me, I'm only really interested in my own personal thing. About the only time I tend to pipe up in casual content is if people are getting themselves killed repeatedly or I'm pulling agro off the tank (both of which naturally scupper my DPS ambitions ).

[Tridus]

I dunno, there's some reason for their decision against it. I know Yoshi has expressed similar concerns in what's been stated throughout the thread thus far.

Is it the same reason for their opposition to fixing the housing system before Shirogane launched? Because they were extremely stubborn about that for no discernible reason except stubbornness, and caved when it turned into a class III sh**storm.

I mean, as a software developer myself, there's lots of reasons why things don't happen. Sometimes it's a deeply held principled belief that said thing is a bad idea. Sometimes it's because it would have a performance impact that isn't readily apparent to players. Sometimes the game design makes it difficult to build. Sometimes it's complicated enough that only a few people on the staff can actually do it, and those people are always busy with something more important. And sometimes we just don't want to admit we were wrong.